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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.20%
A 161 21.47%
A- 101 13.47%
B+ 83 11.07%
B 59 7.87%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.33%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.33%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.73%
D- 10 1.33%
F 38 5.07%
Voters: 750. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 15 2013, 07:35 PM   #4741
Phily B
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Now it's out on DVD, I'm hearing a lot of people talking about it again and the consensus is the same as last time - very good movie, good plot. The only complaints seem to be coming from Trek nerds who want to cry about it not being real Trek.
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Old September 15 2013, 07:41 PM   #4742
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Yeah, I think I mentioned it earlier, but having had the chance to watch it again (I picked it up on DVD after all. I couldn't wait), it is a rather well assembled film, for something that is supposed to be an action/blockbuster. It's fun science fiction, with a dash of color, and a good, solid commentary on current themes. To me, that's quintessential Trek.
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Old September 15 2013, 08:10 PM   #4743
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I've got my gripes with some of the story choices they made, but nothing to the point that it hurts my enjoyment of the movie--certainly nothing that stands out unless I stop and think about it.

If I was being hyper critical of the movie, I could tear it to shreds. But I can do that with just about any Star Trek movie--or movies in general. And, frankly, that fun from time to time, but it's not fun to be in the mindset 24/7 when it comes to a movie.
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Old September 15 2013, 09:08 PM   #4744
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
I've got my gripes with some of the story choices they made, but nothing to the point that it hurts my enjoyment of the movie--certainly nothing that stands out unless I stop and think about it.

If I was being hyper critical of the movie, I could tear it to shreds. But I can do that with just about any Star Trek movie--or movies in general. And, frankly, that fun from time to time, but it's not fun to be in the mindset 24/7 when it comes to a movie.
I prefer to nitpick-to-death a movie I love. If I don't like a movie, I just don't watch it. Seems the logical thing to do. Now, I do tear down movies when people insist such-and-such movie has no plot holes/is superior to another movie in a series, because that's fun, but it's not malevolent in nature.
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Old September 15 2013, 09:11 PM   #4745
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Yeah, I think I mentioned it earlier, but having had the chance to watch it again (I picked it up on DVD after all. I couldn't wait), it is a rather well assembled film, for something that is supposed to be an action/blockbuster. It's fun science fiction, with a dash of color, and a good, solid commentary on current themes. To me, that's quintessential Trek.
Yes, I can not for the life of me understand the "it's not star trek" stuff. It's more Star Trek than a lot of Star Trek!
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Old September 15 2013, 09:46 PM   #4746
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Phily B wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Yeah, I think I mentioned it earlier, but having had the chance to watch it again (I picked it up on DVD after all. I couldn't wait), it is a rather well assembled film, for something that is supposed to be an action/blockbuster. It's fun science fiction, with a dash of color, and a good, solid commentary on current themes. To me, that's quintessential Trek.
Yes, I can not for the life of me understand the "it's not star trek" stuff. It's more Star Trek than a lot of Star Trek!
For some people, the film's style choices are enough to sway them. It would be like having every car be red, and then seeing a car that is blue. There would be some who would say, "that's not a car, cars are red." The mechanics are the same, but since the style choice is different, somehow that takes away its status as a car. It's silly, but there are people who get so hung up on such things, they invalidate an entire franchise based on that minor difference.
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Old September 15 2013, 10:06 PM   #4747
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
For some people, the film's style choices are enough to sway them. It would be like having every car be red, and then seeing a car that is blue. There would be some who would say, "that's not a car, cars are red." The mechanics are the same, but since the style choice is different, somehow that takes away its status as a car. It's silly, but there are people who get so hung up on such things, they invalidate an entire franchise based on that minor difference.
True. I just had a bizarre argument with someone who invalidates the whole film because one Klingon was bald and "was shown with piercings", and that just can't be... because no Klingons are supposed to have piercings.

Later, someone mentioned that Chang, in ST VI, was bald - and had an eyepatch that was riveted to his face, and might count as a piercing.
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Old September 15 2013, 10:17 PM   #4748
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Therin of Andor wrote:
because no Klingons are supposed to have piercings.
It's like saying no Romulans can shave their heads.
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Old September 15 2013, 10:34 PM   #4749
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Set Harth wrote: View Post
It's like saying no Romulans can shave their heads.
I almost mentioned Romulan tattoos to him, and realized I wasn't strengthening my argument.
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Old September 15 2013, 11:28 PM   #4750
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
For some people, the film's style choices are enough to sway them. It would be like having every car be red, and then seeing a car that is blue. There would be some who would say, "that's not a car, cars are red." The mechanics are the same, but since the style choice is different, somehow that takes away its status as a car. It's silly, but there are people who get so hung up on such things, they invalidate an entire franchise based on that minor difference.
True. I just had a bizarre argument with someone who invalidates the whole film because one Klingon was bald and "was shown with piercings", and that just can't be... because no Klingons are supposed to have piercings.

Later, someone mentioned that Chang, in ST VI, was bald - and had an eyepatch that was riveted to his face, and might count as a piercing.
Hey. Hey. Using a tried and true, proven masonry technique does not equal "piercings."
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Old September 16 2013, 12:18 PM   #4751
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
It's fun science fiction
Science funtion.
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Old September 16 2013, 05:05 PM   #4752
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Off the chart bad:

So damn disappointed. As I said before, it has a TATV feeling for me. I mean honestly, did they for one second think this (ending) would be widely accepted by the trek community? … or was paying homage?

I was praying for months that Kahn wasn’t the villain, yet had a feeling he was and, when that was confirmed, I still was willing/open to see what they did with it. However, the almost literal scene-copying/character-flipping from TWOK (Kirk “death” and Spock screaming “Kahhhhn”), made me actually slap my forehead in the theater. I wasn’t alone either. I was surrounded by some “old trekkies” that were just floored. This, whatever you want to call it, made me just go “WTF” and the rest of the story just didn’t matter.

When Spock dies in front of Kirk in TWOK, we are seeing the end of a very long friendship and a major sacrifice that we, as fans, can relate to and feel. We have seen them go through so much together over the years/decades and watched them grow closer through those experiences. So, when TWOK Spock dies…the audience really is watching a familiar old friend/character die and feeling that loss along with the crew. It was powerful, even if you weren’t a die-hard trekkie. Brilliant writing.

The new Trek crew hasn’t known each other long enough to have those deep connections yet and, honestly, I don’t think anyone believed for a second that Paramount would kill off Kirk so early in a new movie franchise. So, knowing that, there really wasn’t a chance that he wouldn’t be coming back from the dead. So, when he “died”, the frakin tribble popped into my head. Oh jeesh, that’s how they are going to do it.

And, what bothered me more than anything in the film, was Spock screaming “Kahhhn!”

Regardless of his new unstable emotional state, it was so blatantly out of character that it just felt…awkward/uncomfortable. This is where my WTF lamp was lit. Why?? I said to myself (I actually said it in the theater). What possible reason could they have had to plagiarize one of Star Trek’s most emotional and iconic moments? I mean really, did they honestly think this would go over and be accepted? Did they think this was good writing? Is there ANY original thinkers left on the planet that can write for Star Trek please?

Other than “why” and “WTF” here are a couple questions I have:

1. Why are Earth-Vulcan and Earth-Kronos trips near instantaneous now? Since when was there a Klingon neutral zone? Wasn’t the Neutral Zone a Romulan/Federation thing? Granted, we are not aware how much time has passed, a simple “Captain’s log” narration entry to show the passage of time (e.g. like “Stardate 2259.60. We’ve been on our way to Kronos for 4 days”)

2. Is the blown up moon Praxis? If so, that shouldn’t have happened yet. Yes, I know it’s an alternate timeline and I appreciate the nod, but it seems a little forced. I hope it’s not Praxis. I hope it was an outpost that Harri-khan found and obliterated.

We’ve over the years accepted all kinds of scientific plot moving devices but “transwarp beaming” has to go. It needs to just disappear of the Federation/Star Fleet needs to ban it. Kind of removes the need for Star Ships. Starfleet cannot use cloaking technology, so they can ban “transwarp beaming” as well. Very lazy writing using it again, especially after they stretched the Star Trek realities of transporters and technology in ST09.

Harri-khan superblood… (slaps forehead) It appears that one “WTF” lead to another. Will Kirk now have a “superior intellect”? …. Super-human strength?

What the frak happened to that tribble? Why was it onboard in the first place?

Wasn’t the stated purpose of the new timeline/universe to not be enslaved by canon? Then why insist that the next “villain” must be Khan? Why even revisit the dialogue in Spock’s death scene in TWoK? It did not work when you compare the emotional impact of TWoK. Not a dry eye in the house in TWoK. In STID, meh. It was too soon to try to evoke emotion from the death of (Pine)Kirk who we hardly know. Why try to shoehorn a new movie with an old scene?

The casting again is the strong point of this new stuff. Bingo on everyone. Alice Eve and Marcus, Peter Well and ADM Marcus and Cumby as Harri-khan was OUTSTANDING. All welcome additions.

Cinematically this movie was outstanding. This movie was visually stunning, top notch and well paced. JJ and co. obviously listened to us here. He toned down the lens-flares, shaky-cams and our engineering plant is no longer a frakin beer factory!!! Thank you!!

I personally don’t like the pixie dust end-trails included in the new warp effect. I’ve read that it could have been an effect added for 3D visuals. Don’t need it; I was fine with our new warp “pop”. We also don’t need the TNG-like s..t..r..e..t..c..h… either.

As I sat in the movie theater and Kirk told Checkov to go get a red shirt on, I heard a collective gasp and “no” throughout the theater. This was a good reference and nod to trek lore. They played this nicely and I thought it really worked. Everyone in the theater was cheering (including me) when Chekov caught Kirk and Scotty. Well done there. (Chekov in engineering as a reference to Space Seed and him possibly being in engineering during that was a great touch)

Chris Pine: I thought his acting was off the charts good. I felt his pain when Pike died. Much more confident in his role here I think. I also thought he did a great job in the death scene. Proven his acting chops, now quit giving him retread crap. Write for HIM!! Bravo!

The development of Kirk: So glad they saw the need to do this. Having Pike take the Enterprise away from him was powerful. I thought the scene in Pikes Office was great. Spock, being truthful as always inadvertently stabbed Kirk in the back. Kirk thinking it was fine to basically lie and got caught. Great scene. We can (and probably will) argue he got command back to fast, but I think what was needed was done. Kirk realized that Star Fleet needed to be more than a toy for Kirk to play around with.

He started making the right decisions for the right reasons. Huge change and a good one.

I thought the scene in the bar could have been a little better. Since Kirk just had the Enterprise taken from him, I thought it would have been better if he would have shown some restraint when being approached by the gal.

Greenwood’s Pike was outstanding once again. While I can understand the necessity for his death for Kirk’s development, I’m sad this character has run its course in the new timeline. (of course there's always Khan superblood...)

I think Alice will make a fine Carol Marcus. While she was important for this story and established herself as someone of strong moral character, she didn’t get much screen time. Looking forward to more from her in the future. I’m hearing they cut something out of the movie that explains her accent.

I thought Scotty was outstanding. Standing up to Kirk and resigning. We can argue all we want about the “convenience” of him ending up where he was, but I didn’t have a huge problem with it. Glad he ended up playing an important part. Still think Simon Pegg was a great choice.

Will someone please give Sulu more to do next time!! John Cho has proven his acting chops (and is cool as hell). BZ once again, loved the “speech”.

I just can’t seem to say enough about this cast…

Bones was spot on once again. Karl Urban nails it. Lots of good one liners. So much Kirk tells him to stop it with the metaphors. Glad he got to do some “doctoring” this time. Guess we can’t complain too much about how he saved Kirk. He DID save Kirk for us. A little more meat with Bones next time please.

Uhura. I thought she was better than last time. The arguments with Spock were good, although not timed very well. I think the seating in Mudd’s ship was arranged just for that argument. Still glad Zoe is playing our communications officer. Thought she did very well standing up to and communicating with the Klingons. (something Uhura(prime) had to use a book for… ) I still believe, for reasons demonstrated in this movie that her relationship with Spock needs to end.

Zackary Quinto is a fine actor and I believe he has a firm grasp of who Spock is. A couple times in this movie I thought the writers forgot. I won’t bust Zackary for that. I thought he did a fine job.

Benedict Cumberbatch was outstanding as Harri-Khan. Thought his acting was right up there with RM’s. He played a great “villain” and I’m more than OK with the possibility of seeing him in the future.

I was ready to put this movie at the top with TWoK, FC & TUC. The 2 hours flew buy, until they fraked everything up at the end.

I ended up actually being comfortable with the Harri-khan thingy. I thought the section 31/Klingon stuff was great and very plausible since Vulcan is gone and the Federation is weaker because of it. I can see the Klingons pre-Kittomer taking advantage and at least everyone being worried about it. Using that to further their selfish goals (militarize Star Fleet). I liked the story-line. Much better than ST09 in that regard.

The Nimoy cameo was a joke. Sorry Leonard, for all the griping you did in your younger days about scripts, it’s hard to believe you thought this was good writing.

Did anyone else think that them starting the 5-year mission at the end of the movie was crying for a TV series? How cool would it be to have these actors and actresses in a TV series!

Oh, and Enterprise has been acknowledged and vilified!!! NX-01 was seen!!

I was impressed with ST09 because they made themselves a clean slate. My frustration with STID is a result of their lack of courage to use it. This is what “Hollywood” is today. Reboots galore. The writers think a reboot gives them a license to “play” and regurgitate whatever trips their trigger. We all knew going in that this was going to be a pop-corn summer block-buster with lots of action etc. No problems there. Star Trek is best on TV, not the big screen and we understand the movie needs to put butts in the seats, especially with the huge budget used for production. Both times I saw the movie in the theater folks got up and left when Harrison revealed him-self as Khan. I don’t for a second begrudge anyone for enjoying this film, but those folks leaving the theater and the many MANY others (including me) that shook their head, or slapped their forehead, or looked up at the ceiling and asked "why?" when they watched Kirk head down to fix the core... those are the folks that have endeared themselves to this franchise. Those are folks that for DECADES have supported this franchise, and for them to get slapped in the face (and the WoK reversal HAD to be considered nothing but that) is very - very frustrating. You can tell the same story, and not rip off arguably the movie franchise's - maybe the entire franchise’s - most moving, endearing and iconic moment. You can tell the same story and not give us a Khan reveal that accomplishes nothing but to piss of the faithful and meant nothing to those that aren't. How simple would it have been to have ADM Marcus find some eggs from Cold Station 12 (Enterprise), bring one to adult hood through some genetic mumbo jumbo (Harrison) and have Harrison (an Augment) find out that ADM Marcus desires to destroy all the evidence to include all the other unlatched eggs? You accomplish the same thing for ADM Marcus without exaggerating Khan’s character and you don't piss anyone off. You also don’t have to answer questions like why Kirk thought it was OK to shoot 72 torpedoes at one man, etc. You don’t have to have Spock, completely out of character, crying and yelling “Khan”, Kirk dying in the core, regurgitating the same lines etc. There are many, and I mean many, that understand how simple it would have been to accomplish the same story without ripping off TWoK. They ask themselves why? Why go there Orci, Kurtzman & Lindelof? Is this an intentional slap in the face to the trekkies? For me, this movie was rocking until the end. Then they blew it.

Tributes are fine. Carol Marcus, mentioning nurse Chapel, Section 31, Mudd’s ship, tribbles, the model NX-01 are all little nods to the universe they are in. This movie had lots as well as ST09. Those are appreciated and a part of the franchise. What’s not appreciated is a problem some felt the franchise went through in Voyager and Enterprise - rehashing old storylines. We need writers for Star Trek that have imagination and creativity, not writers that think “man, this would be cool so…”. Star Trek has endured for almost 50 years because of writers that were bold and creative. They gave us characters that put others safety/survival ahead of themselves. Think about the ending of STID. Spock lead Khan right back to Earth. Why?

Alternate ending?

What could have happened was Scotty says the same line, but when Spock gets down there Kirk is outside the core and Bones tells Spock something like, “good thing he took his anti-radiation shot … he will take some time to recover, but he’ll live…” Then while Kirk lays there, with little to no energy, he – straining – whispers and tells Spock “the needs of the many Spock, Khan was a pawn too… you've got to stop him”. (or something to that effect)

This eliminates the direct rip-off/reversal, fits in your premise, doesn’t require Khan’s “super-blood” when there were 71 other sources right at Bones’ fingertips, and makes that tribble and life eternal bull-crap irrelevant, AND DOESN’T PISS OFF THE FAITHFUL!!!

Oh, and then Spock could use his BRAINS and our wonderful crew instead of his brawn to catch Khan. Then maybe Spock could use his BRAINS and not warp back to Earth with Khan and the Vengeance in tow. You know, where 6+ billion people live placing them all at risk. What do we get? Let’s see, how can we crash a ship in San Francisco Bay and make everyone think its Enterprise in the trailer.

The ending clearly demonstrated the current bunch doesn’t care one iota about those that kept this franchise alive for almost ½ a century and there isn’t any originality left in Hollywood when it comes to writing. This is all just a game to them, I guess that’s why they write movies and we lowly peons just go watch them.

Very frustrating movie. Pretty damn good until the end.
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Old September 16 2013, 06:12 PM   #4753
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

The Klingon Neutral Zone was established in TWOK during the Kobayashi Maru test at the beginning of the movie.
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Old September 16 2013, 08:15 PM   #4754
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Phily B wrote: View Post
Yes, I can not for the life of me understand the "it's not star trek" stuff. It's more Star Trek than a lot of Star Trek!
Yesterday saw it for the first time. It is not Trek. I can not understand why you think it is more trek than a lot of Star Trek.

Beside that, what a weak writing, Kirk looks Khan in the face, help us or not, like a stand off, and asks McCoy, btw what are you doing with a dead tribble.
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Old September 16 2013, 08:21 PM   #4755
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

wjaspers wrote: View Post
Phily B wrote: View Post
Yes, I can not for the life of me understand the "it's not star trek" stuff. It's more Star Trek than a lot of Star Trek!
Yesterday saw it for the first time. It is not Trek. I can not understand why you think it is more trek than a lot of Star Trek.
Like I've said before: most fun I've had with Star Trek since 1991. Since I watch Star Trek to have fun, it was the best since 1991.

Fan since 1975.
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