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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.20%
A 161 21.47%
A- 101 13.47%
B+ 83 11.07%
B 59 7.87%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.33%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.33%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.73%
D- 10 1.33%
F 38 5.07%
Voters: 750. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 31 2013, 03:34 AM   #3931
BillJ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Good to know that people continue to dig in regardless of the circumstances being entirely different between the two situations.
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Old May 31 2013, 03:35 AM   #3932
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

donners22 wrote: View Post
Films are made in order to make money. Females make up half of the population. Alienating women is counterproductive to making money.
Well, let's assume the film alienated its female viewers. By the same token, it must have alienated its male viewers with the gratuitous shirtless shot of its studly male star. So the film basically alienated everyone and that explains why it made no money.
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Old May 31 2013, 03:36 AM   #3933
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

RPJOB wrote: View Post
As opposed to simply blowing them away when they've been defeated and are no longer a threat like Spock advocated in the last movie.
Different movie. We're talking about STID here. "What's wrong with this movie is something that happened in another movie" doesn't work.
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Old May 31 2013, 03:51 AM   #3934
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
RPJOB wrote: View Post
As opposed to simply blowing them away when they've been defeated and are no longer a threat like Spock advocated in the last movie.
Different movie. We're talking about STID here. "What's wrong with this movie is something that happened in another movie" doesn't work.
It's a direct sequel with the same characters in a situation that can be compared with one from the previous movie. Should we just assume that Vulcan is back? That Amanda isn't dead? Or should we wonder just where that older Spock came from? For that matter, should Spock have brought up Vulcan's destruction during his spat with Uhura? Shouldn't that have been left in the last movie?

If you're going to have a character act one one way in the first movie and then strongly advocate a different path in the sequel you should at least show what's cased them to change their mind. As it is, the only difference that was voiced was that Harrison was a Federation citizen. That's what we get to go on.

Spock advocated killing Nero. Kirk not only agreed but did so with a grin. Suddenly (6 months movie time) they're all concerned about killing someone without trial.
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Old May 31 2013, 04:39 AM   #3935
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

spsblue wrote: View Post
Just about recovered from an hour or so panic attack induced by watching STiD, and the shear wrongness of the casting.....

Still too angry and stressed to post coherently at this point.
I know. I couldn't believe they cast the butt dwarf from The X-Files in the vital and celebrated role of Keenser. I've been outraged about it since 2009, and the current movie only brought new and more terrifying flashbacks. The horror... The horror...

throwback wrote: View Post
About people's experiences, how many people have been directly impacted by a drone strike? And, of those people, how many would have seen this film? I would think the number would be small.
I'm going to take a wild guess that it's slightly higher than the number who have been subjugated by charismatic genetically engineered tyrants who controlled a quarter of the world during the Clinton presidency?

Also, it's not questioning the morality of being a victim of drone strikes, assassination and imprisonment without trial, or preemptive wars of vengeance launched under false pretenses, so that's a silly point to make. It's questioning the morality of using those tactics against others, which is quite relevant to the citizens of many of the Western nations where the film will perform most strongly and to the US in particular. Not only have many of those citizens from all over the political spectrum been indirectly responsible for supporting those actions with their votes and political donations, you'll find a much higher number of them have had loved ones killed or wounded in action in the aforementioned war, or have been traumatized in war themselves.

In that sense it's very relevant and perhaps even somewhat challenging to present day Western audiences who choose to listen to the message of the film, which is not even subtext but rather spelled out quite explicitly in dialogue and events in the film. I'm not going to call it deep, cerebral science fiction, but it should make you think a little.

If you are speaking about people's experiences, how about a film about a society that is increasingly becoming aware of your activities and the loss of anonymity and privacy in that society?
How about a film with a powerful and charismatic leader who controlled part of Asia and is armed by a secretive intelligence agency to help them defeat their enemies until he carries out a massive terrorist attack in a major city, striking the HQ of their military and some towers in an airplane.




The terrorist is tracked with the omnipresent CCTV cameras that can be found in most major cities (and London especially).



After first ordering a drone strike to take the bad guy out, which is protested by some, a mission to kidnap or kill the criminal in a sovereign nation without extradition or permission is undertaken, where he is eventually beaten while in custody and thrown in jail.




After that, he's thrown into prison in an undisclosed location without trial for an indefinite period of time.



Nope, nothing relevant to the present day and recent history there.

I shall call it, Nero Dark Thirty. Wait, wrong guy. How about Generation Khan?
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Old May 31 2013, 04:54 AM   #3936
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I much preferred Star Trek when they beat you across the face with allegory.



WHATEVER DO YOU MEAN, GENE? YOU'RE SO SUBTLE!
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Old May 31 2013, 04:57 AM   #3937
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Into Darkness wasn't exactly subtle either, what with Kirk's children's show "what-we-learned-today" speech at the end and all. Its hamhandedness is one of its chiefest charms.
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Old May 31 2013, 04:59 AM   #3938
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Then no one can deny it isn't Star Trek.
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Old May 31 2013, 05:04 AM   #3939
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

You mean no one can deny it is Star Trek? No disagreement here. Earnest yet clumsy topicality just screams "Star Trek." I can't tell you what criteria other people use, but that sure is mine.
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Old May 31 2013, 07:28 AM   #3940
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Finally got a day off and went to an IMAX theatre to watch it in 3D... probably the best 3D film I've ever seen. Amazing. As for the rest of the film... miles ahead of ST09. I always, always felt ST09 was a great movie, but a terrible terrible Trek. This however... I had no real moments that jarred me out of the experience like that last movie and I felt the slow easing into the original 5 year mission was absolutely fantastic.

And I think the cast really nailed their roles... not to say they were bad before, but there was far too much setting up for who they were to become and it just felt off at some points. In this one, the chemistry was perfect and I started to fully believe they were the characters. And I think they got the perfect actor to play Khan. He was charming and likeable somehow, despite being an absolutely ruthless and chilling figure. And I am so so happy they left it open for that storyline to return and really up the anti.

As for the overall story... it hooked me from the beginning. Loved the intro and those amazing scenes (yes.. I ducked at the spear...). And I liked how it led us into the heart of the movie, though I do have one big gripe in that it was a bit too easy and fast for Kirk to go from Captain to academy to first officer to Captain. Could have done with something less convoluted to be honest. However, from there it was just a blast to watch... not only great action scenes, but some actual Trek conscious putting an underlining message to the story, and some damn gorgeous 3D scenes (I want my own personal IMAX theatre). And the final scene... talk about goosebumps.

This was basically the film I wanted from ST09... and maybe it will make rewatching that film all the much easier knowing the very next one in the pipeline is just spectacular. And I went in with massive reservations... though still have a few about that horrid teleporter effect as well as the Enterprise pixie dust after warp. A little toooo much there I think.

Solid A... too bad the blu ray release just won't live up to that IMAX experience
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Old May 31 2013, 10:57 AM   #3941
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Well, it's the uncritical and adoring fans like Admiral Buzzkill, Belz..., and others who will keep this movie franchise chugging along. Good for them.
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Old May 31 2013, 11:00 AM   #3942
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

RPJOB wrote: View Post
Spock advocated killing Nero. Kirk not only agreed but did so with a grin. Suddenly (6 months movie time) they're all concerned about killing someone without trial.
No, Spock advocated not rescuing Nero. And the magnitude of the two villains' crimes are a bit different, wouldn't you say ?
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Old May 31 2013, 11:14 AM   #3943
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
Well, it's the uncritical and adoring fans like Admiral Buzzkill, Belz..., and others who will keep this movie franchise chugging along. Good for them.
Drop the personal commentary, please.
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Old May 31 2013, 11:23 AM   #3944
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
Well, it's the uncritical and adoring fans like Admiral Buzzkill, Belz..., and others who will keep this movie franchise chugging along. Good for them.
So cute.

For you there is always the likes of Star Trek Continues.
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Old May 31 2013, 11:46 AM   #3945
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
Well, it's the uncritical and adoring fans like Admiral Buzzkill, Belz..., and others who will keep this movie franchise chugging along. Good for them.
You obviously haven't seen me post in other threads, then.

I am VERY critical of Star Trek. There's tons of things I don't like from each series and movies and from the franchise in general.

But I love Star Trek and I understand that movies and series and fiction in general have flaws. If I'd let, say, a small mistake like calling Klingon ships "warbirds" prevent me from enjoying it, then I wouldn't like many movies or series, and I would be the only loser in that deal.

I'd rather enjoy the show, so I'm willing to ignore the small stuff.
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