RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,659
Posts: 5,429,016
Members: 24,815
Currently online: 406
Newest member: AlphaZero


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.30%
A 161 21.58%
A- 101 13.54%
B+ 82 10.99%
B 58 7.77%
B- 27 3.62%
C+ 40 5.36%
C 38 5.09%
C- 25 3.35%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.74%
D- 10 1.34%
F 36 4.83%
Voters: 746. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 30 2013, 03:57 PM   #3901
Pro Populo
Rear Admiral
 
Pro Populo's Avatar
 
Location: The Middle West
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J.A. Morris wrote: View Post
I liked it a lot, gave it an A in the poll. But I wish they could find a way to make a ST movie that finds the happy medium between "cerebral" and "2 hrs of blowing $h!t up".
I feel like that as well (though my vote was more in the "B" range). I think STID very much succeeds as an incredibly fun spacey-wacey action-Jackson blockbuster, but like ST09, it does not hold up very well under intense scrutiny. That, of course, turns off a certain set of fans. Me, I think Star Trek should be fun, because that is, in fact, how it started: as a space-set adventure show. But as a fan, I also very much believe in the franchise's overriding ethos of telling big, idea-based stories, which is where I felt STID fell a bit short. I definitely didn't find it to be a failure, mind you, but I feel like a bit more polishing to the script could have brought that balance you speak of.

For me, the Trek film that comes closest to achieving the cerebral vs. action balance is probably TUC. Its political allegory is not so subtle, to be sure, but I feel it's woven in quite well with the story, which has stakes for the characters that make it involving for the audience addition to throwing in some (reasonably) thoughtful commentary on the early uncertainty of post-Cold War international relations. I feel like Trek could do something similar with terrorism today, and had a good chance with STID, which did include aspects such as the militarization of Starfleet, etc., but it didn't all quite come together as well.
Pro Populo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 04:36 PM   #3902
Belz...
Fleet Captain
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
In TWOK, Kirk and Khan never even meet in person, even though Kirk is the hero and Khan is the villain. That left the audience totally confused. Bad film.
Your opinion aside, and although in retrospect it's odd to not have them meet face-to-face, I think it actually works in the movie's favour, and most people don't seem to mind.
__________________
And that's my opinion.
Belz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 04:56 PM   #3903
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

There have been no "big ideas" in Star Trek movies that are any more relevant to the current day or as substantive as the political/moral positions expressed in STID. I'm not sure that Trek has staked out a position on an issue that's strayed further from the safe and generic than this movie since perhaps "A Taste Of Armageddon," and that's a long time.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 05:00 PM   #3904
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J.A. Morris wrote: View Post
I liked it a lot, gave it an A in the poll. But I wish they could find a way to make a ST movie that finds the happy medium between "cerebral" and "2 hrs of blowing $h!t up".
Borgminister wrote: View Post
That would have to be low budget and play to the local art houses, unfortunately...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psba0e8b91.gif

[Converted to link. Images should be hosted on web space or an image-sharing account belonging to you. - M']

There a many successful films with less action and more substance.

Last edited by M'Sharak; May 30 2013 at 10:08 PM. Reason: hotlinked image
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 05:18 PM   #3905
indranee
Vice Admiral
 
indranee's Avatar
 
Location: Warrrrrrrrrshington, DC
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

RAMA wrote: View Post
Critical check-in: IMDB audience rating is still 8.3 after 10,000 more votes since the last I checked.

Roten Tamatoes: An amazing 201 out of 231 reviews are fresh, if it wasn't for ST09's off-the-charts score, this would be spectacular.
I think ST09 had the "dooooooood Im frist!!!" factor going...
indranee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 05:20 PM   #3906
indranee
Vice Admiral
 
indranee's Avatar
 
Location: Warrrrrrrrrshington, DC
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J.A. Morris wrote: View Post
I liked it a lot, gave it an A in the poll. But I wish they could find a way to make a ST movie that finds the happy medium between "cerebral" and "2 hrs of blowing $h!t up".
True, this wasn't cerebral. But it came close to character moments juxtaposed by action moments... which is as close as you can come in this box office environment to what you want.

The cerebral thing with Trek will have to be in a TV show, I'm afraid.
indranee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 05:53 PM   #3907
Ovation
Vice Admiral
 
Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
There have been no "big ideas" in Star Trek movies that are any more relevant to the current day or as substantive as the political/moral positions expressed in STID. I'm not sure that Trek has staked out a position on an issue that's strayed further from the safe and generic than this movie since perhaps "A Taste Of Armageddon," and that's a long time.
What was it that Dennis Bailey guy used to say? Oh yeah. Absolutely Right.
Ovation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 05:55 PM   #3908
indranee
Vice Admiral
 
indranee's Avatar
 
Location: Warrrrrrrrrshington, DC
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Yeah I wonder where Dennis went?
indranee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 06:34 PM   #3909
Mach5
Rear Admiral
 
Mach5's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
There's really no virtue to being consistent with something that espouses outdated and unfair values. None at all.
QFT
__________________
"Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence, it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines."
― Bertrand Russell
Mach5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 06:43 PM   #3910
Borgminister
Moderator
 
Location: California
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
J.A. Morris wrote: View Post
I liked it a lot, gave it an A in the poll. But I wish they could find a way to make a ST movie that finds the happy medium between "cerebral" and "2 hrs of blowing $h!t up".
Borgminister wrote: View Post
That would have to be low budget and play to the local art houses, unfortunately...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...psba0e8b91.gif

[Converted to link. Images should be hosted on web space or an image-sharing account belonging to you. - M']

There a many successful films with less action and more substance.
Neil needs to be in the next ST movie!

We are talking about Star Trek here, right?

Last edited by M'Sharak; May 30 2013 at 10:10 PM. Reason: hotlink
Borgminister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 07:20 PM   #3911
Belz...
Fleet Captain
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

indranee wrote: View Post
The cerebral thing with Trek will have to be in a TV show, I'm afraid.
And even then, I'm not sure in the current state of things on TV that such a show would be particularily cerebral. It might try to sell itself as such, however.
__________________
And that's my opinion.
Belz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 07:30 PM   #3912
Squiggy
LORD SHIT SUPREME
 
Squiggy's Avatar
 
Location: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
View Squiggy's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Squiggy
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
TWoK established that both characters had a backstory. If an audience member wanted to see that backstory, he or she could buy a VHS copy of Space Seed. (In conjunction with the movie, Paramount had released a VHS copy of the episode.) [http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Star...ies_%28VHS%29]
That seems like a shitty thing to do to people.

"Don't know what's going on? Send us 19.99 and we'll eventually send you a tape of the backstory long after the movie has left the theaters so then you can buy the tape for THAT, watch them in order in 6-12 months, and then finally understand why everyone is so upset."
__________________
ENOUGH OF THIS TURGID BASH WANKERY!
Squiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 07:40 PM   #3913
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

TWOK clearly explains everything you need to know. Enterprise found the Botany Bay, Khan tried to steal the ship and kill Kirk, Kirk exiled them on a green planet, and the green planet turned into a desert.

Seriously, it's not that hard.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 07:55 PM   #3914
throwback
Captain
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

A substantive moral/political debate that would work best with Khan is over the belief that humans can engineer our bodies to be better than they are. The question becomes then, who would be the engineers and what would be their moral/legal obligations to society? And, how would we engineer ourselves, through natural or artificial means? (Some believe that in time humans may become an amalgamation of both the organic and the synthetic.)
throwback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30 2013, 08:23 PM   #3915
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
A substantive moral/political debate that would work best with Khan is over the belief that humans can engineer our bodies to be better than they are. The question becomes then, who would be the engineers and what would be their moral/legal obligations to society? And, how would we engineer ourselves, through natural or artificial means? (Some believe that in time humans may become an amalgamation of both the organic and the synthetic.)
No, that's skiffy fluff. Important, relevant issues are those that affect the way human beings actually live in the world right now. Ruminating about the ethics of future possibilities in so narrow a sense is entertaining for a debate club but doesn't really touch people's experience.

One could debate the ethics of eugenics in the original "Space Seed," but that was a pretty safe topic at the time since the writer would ultimately come down on the side of "well, they're not really superior anyway because we can kick their asses" - there'd been rather a bit of a dust-up along these lines called the Second World War which had formed what was acceptable public opinion about this kind of thing.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
benedict cumberbatch, grading & discussion, jj abrams

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.