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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.38%
A 161 21.67%
A- 100 13.46%
B+ 82 11.04%
B 58 7.81%
B- 27 3.63%
C+ 40 5.38%
C 38 5.11%
C- 24 3.23%
D+ 11 1.48%
D 13 1.75%
D- 10 1.35%
F 35 4.71%
Voters: 743. You may not vote on this poll

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Old April 25 2013, 02:58 PM   #316
indranee
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

DarthTom wrote: View Post
Art Vandelay wrote: View Post

The design was great. So were the actors. Top-notch effects.

However, I still felt empty, because the writing was unbelievably, carelessly dumb. Broke the movie's back.
I don't understand how you folks can say this and at the same time like [ ? ] Nemesis, Insurrection, Generations or the The Final Frontier which were all terrible films, poorly written and conceived. Shit, they weren't even entertaining.

I'm curious - what was the last well written Trek film in your opinion because it hopefully wasn't any of those?
I've a feeling a lot of these disgruntled fans grew up primarily with TNG.
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Old April 25 2013, 03:01 PM   #317
Flake
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I think the blame for the fanwanky spoliers lies squarely with the scriptwriters. I realize Abrams could have said 'Hang on a minute, I'm not doing this' but I think he concentrated on directing and trusted his friends (Orci/Kurtzman/Lindelof) judgement. It is Abrams raw talent that prevented ST09 being shit (and actually turned out very good/enjoyable!) and I presume the same will apply again with STID so for that reason I can't wait to see it warts and all.

If someone had spoiled ST09 in a similar way to what we have seen here the backlash would have been almost as 'bad' as we are seeing now. Crazed Romulan miner from the future goes back in time through a black hole created by 24th century Spock as part of his efforts to thwart a galactic supernova with red matter and the whole transwarp beaming malarky... yet it was a fantastic movie inspite of all that crap K&O came up with.

If the same scriptwriters are in for the next movie but a new director comes in... :/

Re: Doctor Who - I too thought fans of 63-89 Doctor Who hated the 05- one !
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Old April 25 2013, 03:03 PM   #318
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Flake wrote: View Post
Re: Doctor Who - I too thought fans of 63-89 Doctor Who hated the 05- one !
Some oldWho fans do. They'd take issue just as fervently with the notion that nuWho is "the right way to revive a franchise" as a few trekkies do with the Abrams version of Trek.

Some folks just want mom's macaroni and cheese.
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Old April 25 2013, 03:12 PM   #319
TommyW
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Sky wrote: View Post
Because the main thing that matters and determines if a film is good or bad...is the box office?
"Successful or unsuccessful." You can call anything you like "good" or "bad."

There aren't enough determined complainers to matter, as has already been demonstrated. The number of fans who are angry enough to stay away is miniscule, a drop in the bucket.

And most of them amble in to complain a week or two after the premiere, insisting that they somehow "saw the movie for free so Abrams and Paramount don't get any of my money," which is pretty much bullshit. So, again, who cares?
Be honest - are you genuinely not a little tired that the Star Trek films keeps borrowing so heavily from Wrath of Khan? I quite liked the first JJ Abrams film, and I expect I'll enjoy large parts of this new one - but I'm sick to death of everything being a rehash. I know there aren't many original ideas left in Hollywood but Star Trek film writers don't seem to even try these days
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Old April 25 2013, 03:16 PM   #320
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

That's like saying that the James Bond films "keep borrowing so heavily from Goldfinger."

Every two or three years since 1979 I go to the movies and have a pretty good time watching a Star Trek movie; the Abrams version is by far the most enjoyable since the mid-1980s.
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Old April 25 2013, 03:17 PM   #321
TommyW
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

You didn't answer the question?
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Old April 25 2013, 03:19 PM   #322
Art Vandelay
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

DarthTom wrote: View Post
I don't understand how you folks can say this and at the same time like [ ? ] Nemesis, Insurrection, Generations or the The Final Frontier which were all terrible films, poorly written and conceived. Shit, they weren't even entertaining.

I'm curious - what was the last well written Trek film in your opinion because it hopefully wasn't any of those?
TFF and NEM were both exceedingly dumb - at least as dumb as Trek09, if not more. (The other two you mention were dumb-ish, but in a way that could be ... suppressed or endured.) However, we had non-dumb Trek on TV when they hit theatres. I can go to McDonalds's once a month when I get to eat home-cooked food the rest of the time.

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Some oldWho fans do. They'd take issue just as fervently with the notion that nuWho is "the right way to revive a franchise" as a few trekkies do with the Abrams version of Trek.

Some folks just want mom's macaroni and cheese.
Yes, and I love both old and new Who. I may love Hartnell and Tom Baker a little more than all the others, but everybody has favorites.

Doesn't that kind of prove that I'm pro-change? My dislike of JJTrek doesn't mean I want franchises to stagnate. Go with the flow, but have faith in the audience's intelligence.
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Old April 25 2013, 03:24 PM   #323
section9
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

trevanian wrote: View Post
section9 wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
If Khanberbatch is on board the Vengeance when it crashes into Earth, then how could he survive that?

For that matter, how could Earth survive it?
Damon Lindelof can write his way out of anything. He can pull a baboon out of Eleanor Roosevelt's ass if he has to.
Each according to his gifts. When you find out what Lindelof's talent is, or even what field it is in, please advise.
Dude, I said that Damon Lindelof could write his way out of anything, not that he was a good writer.

He can also pull a baboon out of Eleanor Roosevelt's ass, but that's another story: see, Prometheus.
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Old April 25 2013, 03:30 PM   #324
DarthTom
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

indranee wrote: View Post

I've a feeling a lot of these disgruntled fans grew up primarily with TNG.
Even so, there is a lot of 'bad writing,' there too. Shit there is even outright sexism and racism in one of the episodes. Code of Honor.
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Old April 25 2013, 03:32 PM   #325
yenny
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Deception is the game, Colonel Green.
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Old April 25 2013, 03:32 PM   #326
Franklin
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I dunno. As has been said many times on these boards, Khan is the most memorable and marketable villain in Trek. It's a stretch to say he's Trek's Joker, but no one Klingon (who are Trek's Joker in aggregate) ever rose to his stature.

In TWOK, this most brilliant and brutal of foes comes across Kirk at a crossroads in his life. The conflict comes when Kirk is at a weak point, and the stakes are high (Genesis). His command has been taken away from him. He's feeling his age; he's in a crisis of confidence. Early on, Khan plays on that to his advantage, but Kirk gains momentum in the movie, and it ends with him rejuvinated and back to his old self.

In STID, the most brilliant and brutal of foes comes across Kirk at a crossroads in his life. The conflict comes when Kirk is at a weak point, and the stakes are high (war). His command has been taken away from him. He's feeling his age; he's in a crisis of confidence. Early on, Khan plays on those weaknesses, but Kirk grows in the movie and it ends with him becoming a more complete leader and on the path to greatness.

In an odd way, Khan is a tonic for both Kirks. That does kind of make him Kirk's Joker. Kirk needed Khan both times. Both times he was reborn into the full hero he is (maybe even literally in STID). I kind of like that.
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Old April 25 2013, 03:35 PM   #327
lurok
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Every hero needs a nemesis (gah, I went and did it).

It's like Bond fans complaining about the different Blofelds. God forbid.
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Old April 25 2013, 03:35 PM   #328
Therin of Andor
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Jeyl wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Doctor Who? Really?
At least Doctor Who stayed as a television series
Really?

I thought there was a major misstep with the McGann "Doctor Who" telemovie? I recall fans being aghast that he shared a kiss with his companion.

and the character of the Doctor is the same character from the show's beginnings in 1963.
A character who conveniently changes looks, clothes, age and personality with each transformation.

No one is afraid of Doctor Who having a huge amount of history.
No one? The longevity of "Who" is the main reason I've avoided watching it.
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Old April 25 2013, 03:37 PM   #329
section9
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Here's the thing: Abrams and his gang of writers made this movie for the mass audience, not for us. In doing so, they decided to retell the Khan story.

Every fanboi I've seen is upset. Abrams & Co. don't give a shit that you're upset. They wanted to use Khan and they cast Cumby because he guarantees good gate.

So cut the crap. This is about money and Paramount making a return on their investment in Bad Robot. Enough of the Sheeple will see this film and it will work for them for Paramount to greenlight a third film with Cumby back as the Khanster.
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Old April 25 2013, 03:39 PM   #330
lurok
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

We probably haven't even seen Khan's wrath yet
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