RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 147,628
Posts: 5,836,763
Members: 26,156
Currently online: 570
Newest member: Conclusion

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Elogium
By: Michelle Erica Green on Aug 28

Trek Swype Keyboard
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Meaney In Talks For McGuinness Role
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Stewart And Son To Act Together
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Quinto: If I Wasn’t An Actor…
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Star Trek Beyond Update
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Red Shirt Diaries Returns Next Month
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

ISS Astronaut May Join Trek Fan Film
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Quinto Sports New Trek Uniform
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Star Trek: Renegades Released Early
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 1 2015, 03:42 AM   #1
Coco Pops 1967
Captain
 
Coco Pops 1967's Avatar
 
I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan story?

Those torpedos all had bodies inside them, but did they have actual functional warheads?

Khan obviously cared for his own people but did he just shove them all into those torpedoes and keep the warheads on them as well?

If that latter is true then maybe he was a bit more wackadoodle then I gave him credit for.

Also while we are at it, while I love this movie and the 2009 movie to bits I did feel a huge WTF? kind of moment when watching it in that why did they rehash the whole Khan story?

What was the point or need to rehash it? Are they going to redo all the old movies to fit in the new timeline, not that I'd complain, I'll probably see them but I just thought surely there must be 100s of new ideas they could have come up with.
__________________
Aliens? What aliens?
But Gracie there are aliens.. On the BSN
Coco Pops 1967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2015, 03:53 AM   #2
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

Coco Pops 1967 wrote: View Post
Those torpedos all had bodies inside them, but did they have actual functional warheads?
Yes, as indicated when Spock beamed the torpedoes over to Vengeance and detonated them. Also, the reason Khan surrendered to Kirk was to prevent the torpedoes from being fired.

Also while we are at it, while I love this movie and the 2009 movie to bits I did feel a huge WTF? kind of moment when watching it in that why did they rehash the whole Khan story?

What was the point or need to rehash it? Are they going to redo all the old movies to fit in the new timeline, not that I'd complain, I'll probably see them but I just thought surely there must be 100s of new ideas they could have come up with.
Lindelof has a huge Khan obsession and kept insisting he be the villain for the movie. Even as far back as Trek XI, Lindelof pushed for an end credits scene featuring the Botany Bay but was ultimately overruled. Indeed, for STID the original intent was for the villain to be brand new character John Harrison, renegade Starfleet officer turned terrorist. It was Lindelof's insistence that John Harrison be an alias for Khan, and this time he got his way.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.

Last edited by The Wormhole; June 1 2015 at 04:35 AM.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2015, 04:09 AM   #3
Coco Pops 1967
Captain
 
Coco Pops 1967's Avatar
 
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Coco Pops 1967 wrote: View Post
Those torpedos all had bodies inside them, but did they have actual functional warheads?
Yes, as indicated when Spock detonated beamed the torpedoes over to Vengeance and detonated them. Also, the reason Khan surrendered to Kirk was to prevent the torpedoes from being fired.

Also while we are at it, while I love this movie and the 2009 movie to bits I did feel a huge WTF? kind of moment when watching it in that why did they rehash the whole Khan story?

What was the point or need to rehash it? Are they going to redo all the old movies to fit in the new timeline, not that I'd complain, I'll probably see them but I just thought surely there must be 100s of new ideas they could have come up with.
Lindelof has a huge Khan obsession and kept insisting he be the villain for the movie. Eve as far back as Trek XI, Lindelof pushed for an end credits scene featuring the Botany Bay but was ultimately overruled. Indeed, for STID the original intent was for the villain to be brand new character John Harrison, renegade Starfleet turned terrorist. It was Lindelof's insistence that John Harrison be an alias for Khan, and this time he got his way.

Thanks for that that is interesting..
__________________
Aliens? What aliens?
But Gracie there are aliens.. On the BSN
Coco Pops 1967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2015, 04:25 AM   #4
M'Sharak
Definitely Herbert. Maybe.
 
M'Sharak's Avatar
 
Location: Terra Inlandia
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Coco Pops 1967 wrote: View Post
Also while we are at it, while I love this movie and the 2009 movie to bits I did feel a huge WTF? kind of moment when watching it in that why did they rehash the whole Khan story?

What was the point or need to rehash it? Are they going to redo all the old movies to fit in the new timeline, not that I'd complain, I'll probably see them but I just thought surely there must be 100s of new ideas they could have come up with.
Lindelof has a huge Khan obsession and kept insisting he be the villain for the movie. Eve as far back as Trek XI, Lindelof pushed for an end credits scene featuring the Botany Bay but was ultimately overruled. Indeed, for STID the original intent was for the villain to be brand new character John Harrison, renegade Starfleet turned terrorist. It was Lindelof's insistence that John Harrison be an alias for Khan, and this time he got his way.
To be fair, it's very likely that there some degree of pressure from Paramount to use Khan, as well. It can't have escaped the studio people's notice that, beginning as soon as the 2009 movie went into general release and continuing for months afterward, Abrams and Orci were asked in nearly every interview: "Okay, so you guys are going to do Khan next, right?"

But "rehash the whole Khan story"? Uh-uh. Hardly any of it, in fact
__________________
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming
that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.

— Ralph Waldo Emerson, journal entry for 8 November 1838.
M'Sharak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2015, 05:52 AM   #5
Coco Pops 1967
Captain
 
Coco Pops 1967's Avatar
 
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Coco Pops 1967 wrote: View Post
Also while we are at it, while I love this movie and the 2009 movie to bits I did feel a huge WTF? kind of moment when watching it in that why did they rehash the whole Khan story?

What was the point or need to rehash it? Are they going to redo all the old movies to fit in the new timeline, not that I'd complain, I'll probably see them but I just thought surely there must be 100s of new ideas they could have come up with.
Lindelof has a huge Khan obsession and kept insisting he be the villain for the movie. Eve as far back as Trek XI, Lindelof pushed for an end credits scene featuring the Botany Bay but was ultimately overruled. Indeed, for STID the original intent was for the villain to be brand new character John Harrison, renegade Starfleet turned terrorist. It was Lindelof's insistence that John Harrison be an alias for Khan, and this time he got his way.
To be fair, it's very likely that there some degree of pressure from Paramount to use Khan, as well. It can't have escaped the studio people's notice that, beginning as soon as the 2009 movie went into general release and continuing for months afterward, Abrams and Orci were asked in nearly every interview: "Okay, so you guys are going to do Khan next, right?"

But "rehash the whole Khan story"? Uh-uh. Hardly any of it, in fact

Well if that's true it was IMHO silly of Paramount to do that. I would have preferred an original idea... But having said that I did like the movie..
__________________
Aliens? What aliens?
But Gracie there are aliens.. On the BSN
Coco Pops 1967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2015, 08:38 AM   #6
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

It was always the plan to redo Khan. The directors commentary of ST'09 mentions them nearly ending that movie on a shot of the SS Botany Bay floating in space.

"Rehashes" are par for the course in reboots. Man of Steel brought back Zod from Superman II, The Dark Knight brought back The Joker from Batman (1989) - it was inevitable that a Trek resurrection would bring back Khan, one of it's most famous baddies. I thought they did a fantastic job.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2015, 02:19 AM   #7
Hela
Commander
 
Hela's Avatar
 
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

If we count the EU, Khan is probably one of the characters that has appeared the least on Trek media.

I'm honestly surprised the EU didn't revisit him more than it did (not unhappy, mind). Outside of Greg Cox's prequels and one showing in the fan contest books, he's never come back as far as I know. No alternate universe versions showing up, no ressurections, no flashbacks etc. A few mentions maybe, and that's it. His dead wife has shown up in more Trek licenced stuff than he has.

Of course, most people don't read the EU.
Hela is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2015, 03:01 AM   #8
Ithekro
Commodore
 
Ithekro's Avatar
 
Location: Republic of California
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

For the torpedoes, I get the idea that Khan needed them to still look like weapons so he could smuggle out his people. I imagine the range was reduced with the people inside. Or most specifically the fuel was reduced.
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2015, 03:32 AM   #9
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

Hela wrote: View Post
If we count the EU, Khan is probably one of the characters that has appeared the least on Trek media.

I'm honestly surprised the EU didn't revisit him more than it did (not unhappy, mind). Outside of Greg Cox's prequels and one showing in the fan contest books, he's never come back as far as I know. No alternate universe versions showing up, no ressurections, no flashbacks etc. A few mentions maybe, and that's it. His dead wife has shown up in more Trek licenced stuff than he has.

Of course, most people don't read the EU.
There's also a story in the Myriad Universes series (basically "what if" scenarios) that explores how things would have developed into the 24th century had Khan won the Eugenics Wars. The story features flashback to the Eugenics Wars and in the 24th century portion a hologram based on Khan is featured.

Also, novels set in the Mirror Universe have mentioned Khan and that there was a Eugenics Wars in the MU which still resulted in Khan losing and the Terran Empire outlawing genetic engineering as a reaction to it.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2015, 04:51 AM   #10
Go-Captain
Lieutenant
 
Go-Captain's Avatar
 
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

As much I enjoy Into Darkness, and its various attempts at certain plot points and themes, the handling of those things are disjointed. The movie is more about the over all feel rather than any particular element. That actually works for me to a large degree.

One issue with Into Darkness is Star Trek: Nemesis was basically a poor rewrite of Wrath of Khan, giving us two rewrites separated by a single movie. Then there is the to close to the original mirroring of the "KHAAAN!" scene in Into Darkness. Trying yet again at it, and the nostalgia pleased me as much as it disappointed me. Over all I think both drag a bit to heavily on the film. Those elements which are original are the starts of good ideas, but don't have the needed follow through. Without that, it makes the reuse of the Khan set of ideas kind of pointless.

Over all, I truly hope they avoid any more rehashes, as those were the worst parts of Voyager and Enterprise. Fortunately, the new director seems to have an appreciation and understanding of Star Trek, and a desire to write an original story. One which actually has to do with exploration. Maybe Kirk will finally be the ultra capable bluffer we know and love, rather than a lucky bastard or scrapes by.
Go-Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2015, 05:25 AM   #11
Coco Pops 1967
Captain
 
Coco Pops 1967's Avatar
 
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

And that stupid climb up inside the reactor to kick the Star Wars style crystal thingy into place.. Hence why I thought that was way too big to fit inside the ship.
__________________
Aliens? What aliens?
But Gracie there are aliens.. On the BSN
Coco Pops 1967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2015, 06:55 AM   #12
Hela
Commander
 
Hela's Avatar
 
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Hela wrote: View Post
If we count the EU, Khan is probably one of the characters that has appeared the least on Trek media.

I'm honestly surprised the EU didn't revisit him more than it did (not unhappy, mind). Outside of Greg Cox's prequels and one showing in the fan contest books, he's never come back as far as I know. No alternate universe versions showing up, no ressurections, no flashbacks etc. A few mentions maybe, and that's it. His dead wife has shown up in more Trek licenced stuff than he has.

Of course, most people don't read the EU.
There's also a story in the Myriad Universes series (basically "what if" scenarios) that explores how things would have developed into the 24th century had Khan won the Eugenics Wars. The story features flashback to the Eugenics Wars and in the 24th century portion a hologram based on Khan is featured.

Also, novels set in the Mirror Universe have mentioned Khan and that there was a Eugenics Wars in the MU which still resulted in Khan losing and the Terran Empire outlawing genetic engineering as a reaction to it.
I've read the Myriad Universes one. I couldn't remember him actually appearing 'in the flesh' at any point, so I kind of chalked that up to just being a mention. I haven't read it since it came out, so you're probably right,

I thought the Strange New Worlds story was interesting though. What would have happened if Khan had actually been woken up in a time where humanity did want and need a military mind-ed leader? Like say, after the Borg have taken over most of the Alpha Quadrant?

'Rise to the occasion magnificently' was apparently the answer. The author must have agreed with McGivers that a big source of PrimeKhans problems is that he couldn't handle being basically obsolete.

I suppose there was that interquel comic miniseries that was totally not an adaptation the final Greg Cox book. And nuKhan had his comic.
Hela is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2015, 07:29 AM   #13
Ithekro
Commodore
 
Ithekro's Avatar
 
Location: Republic of California
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

One of the Roleplaying games had a Temporal incidents suppliment that had one timeline where Khan won the Eugenics War and his supermen took over the entire world. They go in to invent warp drive about forty years before Cochrane would have and somehow defeat Vulcan and Andor. By the time Khan is 100 years old his has himself a mighty empire where they use genetic engineering to make custom breeds of humans for life on other worlds and have started to look into augmenting with Vulcan DNA and Andorian DNA.
Ithekro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2015, 07:50 AM   #14
Coco Pops 1967
Captain
 
Coco Pops 1967's Avatar
 
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

Ithekro wrote: View Post
One of the Roleplaying games had a Temporal incidents suppliment that had one timeline where Khan won the Eugenics War and his supermen took over the entire world. They go in to invent warp drive about forty years before Cochrane would have and somehow defeat Vulcan and Andor. By the time Khan is 100 years old his has himself a mighty empire where they use genetic engineering to make custom breeds of humans for life on other worlds and have started to look into augmenting with Vulcan DNA and Andorian DNA.

That actually sounds interesting. I wonder if that's how they got the whole thing in Andromeda with the Nietzscheans.
__________________
Aliens? What aliens?
But Gracie there are aliens.. On the BSN
Coco Pops 1967 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2015, 07:59 AM   #15
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England
Re: I have a question about those torpedoes and why rehash the Khan st

Coco Pops 1967 wrote: View Post
And that stupid climb up inside the reactor to kick the Star Wars style crystal thingy into place.. Hence why I thought that was way too big to fit inside the ship.
This Enterprise is way bigger the the old one.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.