RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,064
Posts: 5,431,958
Members: 24,925
Currently online: 612
Newest member: dracopticon

TrekToday headlines

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Cracked’s New Sci-Fi Satire
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Beltran Introduces Shakespeare To Theater Group
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Burton To Be Honored at Facets Boo! Bash
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 29 2014, 01:21 AM   #1
Civ001
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Borg ship construction?

One thing that I am really curious is how do the Borg construct their ships? Do the Borg build them in shipyards like normal races or do they assimilate other ships and grow them? What do you think?
Civ001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29 2014, 01:34 AM   #2
Dac
Commodore
 
Dac's Avatar
 
Location: The Essex wastes...
View Dac's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Dac
Re: Borg ship construction?

Judging from what we saw in Ent "Regeneration" with the Arctic Transport getting cubified on the rear end, I'd say thats a strong case for "growing" ships.
Dac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29 2014, 02:03 AM   #3
varek
Commander
 
varek's Avatar
 
Location: Danville, IN, USA
Re: Borg ship construction?

That's a good question. I had always assumed they commandeered other ships, like the Enterprise-E in First Contact. But maybe they had a different process.
__________________
Varek, Vulcan Engineer
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
Time, like latinum, is a limited commodity.
varek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29 2014, 02:27 AM   #4
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Borg ship construction?

Dac wrote: View Post
Judging from what we saw in Ent "Regeneration" with the Arctic Transport getting cubified on the rear end, I'd say thats a strong case for "growing" ships.
Indeed, in one of the early drafts of the Regeneration script, the arctic transport would gradually over the course of the episode have portions constructed around it until by the end it was a completed Borg Sphere.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29 2014, 02:25 PM   #5
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)
Re: Borg ship construction?

I think Borg both assimilate other vessels in the field as well as build their own at various facilities within their domain. Both methods probably involve a central structure serving as the control node surrounded by layers of salvaged and repurposed parts.
__________________
"Everybody wants to rule the world..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29 2014, 02:52 PM   #6
Richard Baker
Commander
 
Richard Baker's Avatar
 
Location: Warrior, AL
Re: Borg ship construction?

One thing I am curious about- the Borg cubes are all the same size. If they constantly assimilated other craft you would think the older vessels would be larger.
Also- why a perfect cube shape? If you were adding things all the time the exterior should not be that flat and all surfaces equal.
"We are the Borg- Oh crap, we just assimilated Species 227564 and our ship is now a rectangle- we need to find four more alien races to make it even again"...
Richard Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29 2014, 02:59 PM   #7
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Borg ship construction?

Richard Baker wrote: View Post
One thing I am curious about- the Borg cubes are all the same size. If they constantly assimilated other craft you would think the older vessels would be larger.
Also- why a perfect cube shape? If you were adding things all the time the exterior should not be that flat and all surfaces equal.
"We are the Borg- Oh crap, we just assimilated Species 227564 and our ship is now a rectangle- we need to find four more alien races to make it even again"...
You're thinking about it wrong. An assimilated ship is not added onto the ship that assimilated it, the ship simply takes on the shape of the one which assimilated it. For example, if a Galaxy class were assimilated by a cube, than later you'd have another cube with the remains of a Galaxy class at its centre. The cube or sphere or whatever is built around the original ship. This is what was in the original script for Enterprise's Regeneration, portions of a sphere would gradually grow around the arctic transport until it was eventually a full-formed sphere.

Also, the Borg do have rectangular ships.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29 2014, 08:58 PM   #8
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Borg ship construction?

I think you are missing a step here. If an assimilated ship doesn't assimilate further ships, then the seeds can never grow.

What we see in "Regeneration" is a seed ship accruing layer upon layer of parts from other ships in order to grow. The objection then is valid that a cube would be a very difficult shape to accrue upon. Assume the Cube 2.7 km per side in "Q Who?" decided to assimilate the tiny E-D. It would be quite a bit of effort to spread that material thinly across all the six faces - but applying it on one face only would immediately distort the cube shape.

Of course, the same is true of every symmetrical shape in three dimensions; growth by assimilation would happen the most easily in a one-dimensional ship design, essentially a long rod that grew longer with each acquisition. But it's unclear why the Borg insist on symmetry in the first place.

Personally, I think the Cubes and Spheres principally grow by leaps and bounds: when a great amount of material is assimilated, it is used to significantly increase the outer dimensions symmetrically, but the interior is left rather hollow. Further, piecemeal assimilations then result in the density of the Cube or Sphere growing, so that the lace-like Cubes of TNG gradually evolve to the denser ST:FC or solid-plated VOY models.

Incidentally, assimilated starship seeds evolving into Borg ships is the easy explanation for how people and knowledge from Wolf 359 ended up in the Delta Quadrant.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29 2014, 11:01 PM   #9
JirinPanthosa
Commodore
 
Re: Borg ship construction?

There's probably a set schematic for optimal ship design, and ship generation is able to analyze the least cost route from current state to optimal state.
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7 2014, 09:10 PM   #10
publiusr
Commodore
 
Re: Borg ship construction?

I think that a cube has all technologies spread out. Part of why drones have shielding is that the whole vessel is a nacelle of sorts.

A cube is like a slab of jello--a phaser beam a needle. You can stab it as often as you like, and it knits up.

A good design for orbital antenna farms perhaps. SDI proof.
publiusr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 12:11 PM   #11
2takesfrakes
Commodore
 
2takesfrakes's Avatar
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: Borg ship construction?

In TNG when the Borg are first introduced, and they show the Borg Cube "repairing" itself, it definitely gave the impression of a "healing process," akin to something being "grown." There were no borg bodies floating around, welding, or replacing parts. Pipes just stretched out and reconnected, the edges of holes closed on their own, and so on. It was a neat idea, but so strange and awkward in its execution, I didn't really buy it ...
2takesfrakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 01:14 PM   #12
Yanks
Fleet Captain
 
Yanks's Avatar
 
Location: NX01 Bridge
Re: Borg ship construction?

I don't think cubes assimlate the vessel per-se. The technology from their data bases and from the occupants, but the ship itself is not needed nor desired.

In FC, the queen and her minions were in the same situation the Borg were in ENT: Regeneration. Just using what they have available to stay alive, complete the mission and/or return to the collective.
__________________
We have to learn again that science without contact with experiments is an enterprise which is likely to go completely astray into imaginary conjecture.”
- Evolution of the Solar System, NASA 1976, H. Alfvén & G, Arrhenius, p. 257.
Yanks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 02:34 PM   #13
Ro_Laren
Commodore
 
Ro_Laren's Avatar
 
Location: The Badlands
Re: Borg ship construction?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
I think Borg both assimilate other vessels in the field as well as build their own at various facilities within their domain. Both methods probably involve a central structure serving as the control node surrounded by layers of salvaged and repurposed parts.
That seems like a plausible explanation. There is also the possibility that at one time they assimilated other vessels. Then, as they got more technologically advanced and as their resources grew they built shipyards in order to build their ships there. It probably also depended on their needs at the time. If they weren't near a shipyard, but needed a ship, they'd just commandeer one and assimilate it!
Ro_Laren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 03:46 PM   #14
Vandervecken
Commander
 
Vandervecken's Avatar
 
Location: Kobold
Re: Borg ship construction?

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
In TNG when the Borg are first introduced, and they show the Borg Cube "repairing" itself, it definitely gave the impression of a "healing process," akin to something being "grown." There were no borg bodies floating around, welding, or replacing parts. Pipes just stretched out and reconnected, the edges of holes closed on their own, and so on. It was a neat idea, but so strange and awkward in its execution, I didn't really buy it ...

I'm ok with it. Since the Borg rely heavily on nanoprobes, I think it's likely that the "meat" of both their ship-building and repair processes is accomplished by variant nanoprobes (nanomachines). They'd swarm in such numbers that a repair process as seen in "Q Who?" could look much like accelerated cellular healing.

I don't think that an assimilated alien ship could ever be the "center" of a Borg vessel for two reasons: 1) the Borg require the Vinculum, and 2) an alien ship is not likely to have transwarp capability. In any case a Borg vessel shouldn't need to have its most essential components at a physical center of some kind; we were told originally that their ship design was undifferentiated. However, it does make sense that the most important ship components would be farthest from where energy fire or other weapons could hit.

I see alien ships as being assimilated on an ad hoc basis; some designs would be incorporated, some not. The actual physical ship that they've taken over doesn't have to be incorporated. The Borg wouldn't actually use an alien ship as the "seed" for a new ship unless for some reason they had no other choice, eg, they're stranded far from Borg space. Most of the time, I see Borg cubes as bringing captured alien vessels back to Borg space so that the collective could more easily examine and assimilate useful designs.
__________________
"Mu hah hah ha! And when they give me Battlestar Galactica that'll be the trifecta! My red matter and action movie scripts are unstoppable!"--JJ "Destroyer of Worlds" Abrams

Last edited by Vandervecken; June 12 2014 at 03:57 PM.
Vandervecken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 12 2014, 05:38 PM   #15
Enterprise1701
Fleet Captain
 
Enterprise1701's Avatar
 
Location: Sol III, Sector 001, 2014 C.E.
Re: Borg ship construction?

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
In TNG when the Borg are first introduced, and they show the Borg Cube "repairing" itself, it definitely gave the impression of a "healing process," akin to something being "grown." There were no borg bodies floating around, welding, or replacing parts. Pipes just stretched out and reconnected, the edges of holes closed on their own, and so on. It was a neat idea, but so strange and awkward in its execution, I didn't really buy it ...
They also mentioned in VOY: "Dark Frontier" that a sphere damanged by an ion storm was "regenerating". I assume from these descriptions that the Borg use industrial replicators to repair/build their hulls.

Of course, capturing vessels saves time. That works too.
Enterprise1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.