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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 18 2013, 02:43 AM   #76
Xaios
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

Being as Oliver Stone hasn't directed a great movie since JFK (which came out in 1992), I tend to take whatever he says about "the problems with modern movies" with a grain of salt.
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Old April 18 2013, 02:48 AM   #77
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
CinemaCon: Directors Debate Whether They Should Try To Make Crowd-Pleasing Films

Excerpt:

Oliver Stone stole the show at CinemaCon‘s Filmmakers Forum today, making the most challenging comments on a panel with fellow directors Sam Raimi and Guillermo del Toro. [...]

[...]
Recalling the last time I saw Oliver Stone talk about anything, the real challenge he faces is to speak lucidly, never mind using complete sentences.

Stone's comments aside, though, what has this article to say on the subject of "Star Trek sustainability" (while omitting any mention of Trek whatsoever)? What's your take on what the article says?

Also:
Excerpt:

[B][I]Oliver Stone[/I][I] stole the show at [/I][I]CinemaCon[/I][I]‘s Filmmakers Forum today, making the most challenging comments on a panel with fellow directors [/I][I]Sam Raimi[/I][I] and [/I][I]Guillermo del Toro[/I][I]. Too many movies are made to please audiences, copy each other, and lack a compelling story, Stone said at a session moderated by film critic Elvis Mitchell. “I don’t see the difference between one action movie and another…It becomes a form of torture for the eyes.[/I][/B]
Why all of the Bold and Italics formatting tags? If you're going to quote a passage from an article, simply place it in one set of QUOTE tags to set it off from your own remarks; it's a pain to have to edit all of that unnecessary garbage out.
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Old April 18 2013, 02:50 AM   #78
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

Plus, contrary to what Stone implies, all action movies are not interchangeable.Yes, there are loud, exhausting, noisy spectacles that are nothing but nonstop action and SFX. (I'm looking at you, Van Helsing.) But there are also thrilling adventure stories that still have plenty of character, humor, and heart . . . like the Trek reboot. Or, for that matter, The Wrath of Khan.
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Old April 18 2013, 03:23 AM   #79
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

I say the jury's still out on sustainability, especially as we haven't even seen the second movie.

Having said that, I can think of 700-odd reasons why it could potentially springboard a future TV series... and I'm more interested in that than the movies (even though I'm slavering for the new movie).
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Old April 18 2013, 03:52 AM   #80
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Recalling the last time I saw Oliver Stone talk about anything, the real challenge he faces is to speak lucidly, never mind using complete sentences.
Yep. The best word to describe his recent career is "pretentious."

Of course, when a director's pretensions flatter his intended audience, they can congratulate themselves on being smart without much effort.

If Abrams delivers a movie as good or better than his 2009 effort, the Franchise is in good hands.
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Old April 18 2013, 05:35 AM   #81
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

I liked The People vs. Larry Flynt.

I am seeing the same discussion over video games. Take Bioshock Infinite. The genre - FPS - for this game was chosen, not because it suited the story, but because it suited the market. The result? Some are expressing their belief that the story doesn't work well with the genre.

FPS became important, after the success of several franchises set in the modern warfare theater. Corporations seem impervious to the fact that these shooters are successful because they have a strong multiplayer aspect. Ergo, if a game is to succeed, it has to be a FPS.

Action-adventure movies can be distinctive. Looper and Django Unchained are examples of this. In the latter, the director has established a tone for his films.

JJ Abrams, I feel, is not in the same league as Tarintino, nor even his inspiration, Spielberg.
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Old April 18 2013, 06:15 AM   #82
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
It is surprising and frustrating that some here want a Trek feature that is no different than G.I. Joe II or Fast and Furious VI.
Really? I've been on the board for over two years, and I can't recall any regular poster who's expressed that desire.
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Old April 18 2013, 07:49 AM   #83
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
It is surprising and frustrating that some here want a Trek feature that is no different than G.I. Joe II or Fast and Furious VI.
I anticipate another ST just like the last one, or even better. Can't wait!

I've never seen G.I. Joe II nor Fast and Furious VI. Nor G.I. Joe I nor Fast and Furious I thru V.
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Old April 18 2013, 12:04 PM   #84
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

I've never seen G.I. Joe II nor Fast and Furious VI. Nor G.I. Joe I nor Fast and Furious I thru V.
Fast Five is a good popcorn movie, GI Joe II was a horrendous POS, and both these movies don't even have the depth that the first NuTrek movie has.

Like I said, if one skims through the 2009 film, they'd see it as shallow, but If you actually focus and look for the tiny details, it has layers of depth, as well as big-stake implications that are weaved into world-building the nuTrek Timeline.

Depth is only reached when one tries to swim to reach it, forcibly not seeing it is one of the problems most 'hardcore' fans do.
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Old April 18 2013, 01:05 PM   #85
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

I don't need movies to make me feel smart or better than others, I simply need them to entertain me. I need them to provide a couple hours of plain escapism.
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Old April 18 2013, 01:37 PM   #86
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
I've never seen G.I. Joe II nor Fast and Furious VI. Nor G.I. Joe I nor Fast and Furious I thru V.
Neither have I. I watch very few action movies; I think The Avengers was my dose in 2012.
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Old April 18 2013, 03:19 PM   #87
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Danger Ace wrote: View Post
It is surprising and frustrating that some here want a Trek feature that is no different than G.I. Joe II or Fast and Furious VI.
I anticipate another ST just like the last one, or even better. Can't wait!

I've never seen G.I. Joe II nor Fast and Furious VI. Nor G.I. Joe I nor Fast and Furious I thru V.
I confess: I've never seen a G.I. Joe or Fast and Furious movie. Or the Transformers or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, for that matter.

But if we we're going to take out our "cerebral" yardstick, I'd argue that the alternate timeline fun-and-games in the last movie are easily as "cerebral" as, say, . . ..

Lost NASA space probe comes home--with a vengeance!

Experimental terraforming gadgets should not fall into wrong hands!

Don't mess with protomatter!

Save the whales!

What does "God" need with a starship?

Making peace with old enemies is hard.


Some of which belong to great movies, but I don't exactly see them being all that more intellectually challenging than throwing Old Spock into an alternate timeline created by time-travel . . . .
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Old April 18 2013, 03:51 PM   #88
aeriolewinters
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

Lost NASA space probe comes home--with a vengeance!

Experimental terraforming gadgets should not fall into wrong hands!

Don't mess with protomatter!

Save the whales!

What does "God" need with a starship?

Making peace with old enemies is hard.
I want to know your long titles for the TNG movies...
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Old April 18 2013, 03:56 PM   #89
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
.

But if we we're going to take out our "cerebral" yardstick, I'd argue that the alternate timeline fun-and-games in the last movie are easily as "cerebral" as, say, . . ..

Lost NASA space probe comes home--with a vengeance!
Well, obviously you're playing with words to make TMP some sort of action packed revenge flick. TMP is probably the closest to a "cerebral" (getting to hate this word) ST film we got. Since it wasn't about action - at all - it was about "how we see ourselves and our God images" and some such. It was "asking the big questions" to make you think. At least, that was apparently the intention.

Experimental terraforming gadgets should not fall into wrong hands!
Again, the film wasn't about that. That was our Maguffin (another phrase I'm weary of). The real point to TWOK was age, regrets, lost youth, wasted opportunities, self worth while wrapping it in a space opera tortilla. I don't consider TWOK an "action film" mainly because there are only three actual large action sequences. It was, however, a space adventure.

Don't mess with protomatter!
Which only applies to one character. For the rest of the film "it's about loyalty...and sacrifice."

Save the whales!
At this point, I have to figure I must have totally missed the joke, because there's no way a guy as intelligent as you honestly thinks the films boil down to these log lines. I find that people tend to downplay whatever smarts the films had in order to counter arguments about the lack of smarts in the Abrams film(s). Both sides need to play a little more fairly, I think.

Some of which belong to great movies, but I don't exactly see them being all that more intellectually challenging than throwing Old Spock into an alternate timeline created by time-travel . . . .
This is why I think the term "cerebral" is being misused. Many of the Trek films aren't brain twisters (none of them are, actually), and aren't meant to be intellectually challenging, but many of them are designed to entertain while passing something along for you to think about, something kind of important. They tried to have more substance than flash, but needed that flash to sell tickets.

I'm not sure Trek '09 had anything larger to think about (don't let personal loss ruin your life, maybe?), but Trek '13 might be different, dealing even more with Kirk's personal growth. There is a lot to be mined there and the possibility of that (going by the trailers) is what makes me think this film will be more satisfying to fans who like a healthy salad with their cheeseburger. I'm giving creative team the benefit of the doubt. But advertising that "this one will make you think" is the express train to box office indifference.
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Old April 18 2013, 04:29 PM   #90
Greg Cox
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Re: Is J.J. Abams "Star Trek" Sustainable?

Oh, there is definitely more to the earlier films than I was implying. Ditto for the new movie. I was just poking fun a bit at the way people tend to exaggerate just how "cerebral" old Trek was while simultaneously portraying the new movie as nothing but flash and explosions. It's the double standard that gets to me.

The way some people talk, you'd think that every previous Trek film (and the original series for that matter) were nothing but intellectual think-pieces concerned only with Big Ideas and the Great Issues of Day. And that the last movie contained no character bits, emotional drama, or chewy scifi concepts at all . . . .

Like I demonstrated, you can reduce even TMP to "lost robot learns to feel" if you want. Or complain that it's just more of the same old, same old. ("'The Changeling' . . . again?")
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