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Old April 11 2013, 01:06 PM   #16
Use of Time
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

I thought the actors did a good job of portraying the crushing sense of responsibility that their mission entailed as well as the somewhat panicky decision making. Contrary to other people's opinion, I liked Archers character. He seemed more realistic than the other Captains who always seemed to have an answer for everything.
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Old April 11 2013, 01:22 PM   #17
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

I'd go so far as to say it's the only time in Trek we saw that kind of "panicky decision making". Very realistic.
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Old April 11 2013, 01:55 PM   #18
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

I would have liked a small piece of closure, say, one of the aliens at the TATV scene (as there was a Xindi Reptilian there) or the like. But it also does make sense - Archer did this, and it sits horribly with him, and then no one knows what happened, and you are forced to assume that those aliens lost their lives.

I agree re PTSD galloping through the crew. I write E2 stories with most of the crew suffering from clinical depression, and the drugs not always working, or people sometimes outright refusing treatment. I don't think that will go away.
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Old April 11 2013, 02:15 PM   #19
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

Maybe the ramifications of that decision couold be addressed, noncanonically, in the novelverse.
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Old April 11 2013, 02:20 PM   #20
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

Stripping ships? Hmmm. Sounds like Cain and BSG.

Oh wait...
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Old April 11 2013, 02:36 PM   #21
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

Whithin the parameters we were given, Archer absolutely made the right call. If anything, I thought the episode made the call too easy on his part. From Richard Whettestone's review:

The Enterprise is IN the Xindi solar system. They are attacked and left for dead IN the Xindi solar system right near a planet with a Xindi outpost. The Enterprise is crippled and loses its warp capabilities IN the Xindi solar system.

Then some aliens-of-the-weeks show up IN the Xindi solar system and not only have they never heard of the Xindi before, AND the Xindi don't seem to detect them at all, but they live SO CLOSE to the Xindi solar system that their home-world is just three years away at IMPULSE!

At impulse you're just three years away and you never encountered the Xindi before? At impulse you're just three years away and you've never seen the red star before? At impulse you're just three years away and you've never encountered the spacial anomallies before? Because at warp speed that's just days and weeks away, and yet it's all news to them?

Then because the Enterprise does not have warp drive, they use impulse to reach the aliens-of-the-week IN the Xindi solar system and manage to have a space battle that STILL goes undetected by the Xindi INSIDE their own solar system. Then the ship is left stranded IN the Xindi solar system and STILL the Xindi don't see them.

Whatever.
Also:
It'll take those aliens three years to get back to their homeworld!

Because their entire planet only has one ship and can't call for a second ship to make the one month journey to bring over a warp reactor?

Whatever.

It reminds me of Sisko agonizing over whether or not to give the Rommies the faked recording that one time. Duh, of course you should! That's not even a question!
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Old April 11 2013, 03:31 PM   #22
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

lurok wrote: View Post
Stripping ships? Hmmm. Sounds like Cain and BSG.

Oh wait...
Having never watched BSG... who the heck is Cain and what did he do to make him referenced so often as evil incarnate?
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Old April 11 2013, 03:34 PM   #23
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

BillJ wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
He could always swing back by after the mission was complete and give them a lift home.
By all accounts that aquatic ship carried them all the way home. And they definitely never went back into the expanse because the Xindi were never heard from again.


But what I was trying to point out was there were different scenarios where those folks maybe weren't totally screwed. Starfleet could've sent a ship later to pick them up or notified the Andorians or Vulcans about the stranded crew or even sent a warp probe to their homeworld to notify them of the distressed crew.
Oh yeah a probe... "Dear randomalienoftheweek government. Sorry we hijacked parts from Damar's spaceship and left him stranded. Hope he's alive still, but here are their coordinates. Here are flowers for his family if they're not alive. Plz join the Coalition of Planets. K thx. Bai."
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Old April 11 2013, 06:15 PM   #24
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

^ Somebody make this commodore Admiral Forrest's flag writer!
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Old April 12 2013, 02:36 AM   #25
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

One interesting result of the mission being accomplished was that the "Expanse" no longer existed. The pink goo, anomaly filled area of space was a result of the spheres, which were destroyed, send the Sphere Builders back to their dimension. It's possible that normal space traffic resumed (pirating no longer being necessary for survival), and the aliens were rescued sooner.
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Old April 12 2013, 02:39 AM   #26
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

Or someone came along, found them stranded, killed them all and took their stuff.
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Old April 12 2013, 02:50 AM   #27
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

They still had weapons.
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Old April 12 2013, 03:13 AM   #28
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

Which worked so well in stopping Archer from stealing their stuff.
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Old April 12 2013, 03:30 AM   #29
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

They put up a pretty good fight and they would likely be much more trigger happy on the long trip home.
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Old April 12 2013, 05:50 PM   #30
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Re: Archer's decision to strand civilians in Delphic Expanse

Godless Raven wrote: View Post
When the Enterprise was in the Delphic Expanse, Archer encountered a civilian ship and stripped them of a critical engine part, leaving them unable to travel to their home world, in order to fix the Enterprise and continue on their mission.In the Delphic Expanse, this was acknowledged as a death warrant to the civilians.

Did Archer make the right decision? Does the fact that his mission (with low chance of success) succeeded play into this?

Ummmm No, Archer did NOT give them a death warrant. If you watch the episode the Enterprise crew needed the warp core of that ship and in return Archer supplied them with enough food and supplies to make the 3 year journey back to their home. Of course he made the only decision he could since in order to save humanity he had to make the meeting with Degra in 3 days. There was no other way for them to make it in time with the damaged ship. I think the struggle that Archer had to make is gut-wrenching and it was very well portrayed in the episode by making you feel his pain. Also, it shows the change in his character from what we saw at the beginning of the series when he was an explorer. He had become almost like the pirates that they had encountered when they entered the expanse. The only difference being that Archer DID leave them provisions to get back to their home thus retaining at least part of his humanity.
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