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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old April 9 2013, 02:10 AM   #31
ronny
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Lt. Cheka Wey wrote: View Post
Ship of the Line was fine. I am siding with Carey, Enterprise deserves all the criticism it can get.
Here are my issues with Ship of the Line.

The base of the book is from a 30 seconds scene in one episode and she got pretty much every detail wrong. In the episode Bates is sitting in his chair calm, cool and collected with 2 female crew members in site. In the book the Bozeman entered the time loop because they were in a pitched battle with Klingons, I think some bridge crew was killed but not positive and it's an all male crew. I can forgive mistakes but I don't know how you can make a mistake this big a mistake unless you've got a story in mind and damn the facts.

The other thing is Kirk is treated as such a god like figure and Picard is such a slouch that the mere presence of a hologram of Kirk talking to him is enough to make Picard think that maybe he could be a good captain after all. I just didn't believe anything Picard said in the book was actually said by Picard. And the resolution was totally unbelievable to me.

My least favorite ST book of all time. Red Sector is way down there as well.
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Old April 9 2013, 02:21 AM   #32
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Ancient Blood is pretty fun though.
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Old April 9 2013, 02:23 AM   #33
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

ronny wrote: View Post
Here are my issues with Ship of the Line.

The base of the book is from a 30 seconds scene in one episode and she got pretty much every detail wrong. In the episode Bates is sitting in his chair calm, cool and collected with 2 female crew members in site. In the book the Bozeman entered the time loop because they were in a pitched battle with Klingons, I think some bridge crew was killed but not positive and it's an all male crew. I can forgive mistakes but I don't know how you can make a mistake this big a mistake unless you've got a story in mind and damn the facts.


Also, Picard's log entry in "Cause and Effect," repeated multiple times because of the loop, makes it clear that the Typhon Expanse is a frontier region that no Federation vessel has ever charted before, yet Ship of the Line portrays it as a region on the Federation-Klingon border with Federation colonies and a starbase.
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Old April 9 2013, 02:30 AM   #34
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Sounds like she confused it with Yesterday's Enterprise and another alternate invading reality. Braga should talk. He's turning out to be a show killer on shows that he really doesn't believe in either I think.
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Old April 9 2013, 02:44 AM   #35
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Thrawn wrote: View Post
Ancient Blood is pretty fun though.
It's widely hated, I know, but I rather like it. I especially love the Fighting Sail chapters. If Carey had written Age of Sail fiction, I'd have bought it all avidly.

ronny wrote: View Post
Here are my issues with Ship of the Line.
I agree with all of that.

It has the feel of a rushed novel. I don't know who ran out of time, if Carey had tight deadlines on the book (she was writing three Star Trek novels a year at the time) or if John Ordover didn't give it the editorial love it needed. What I do know is that the book reads to me like it's two passes away from being right.

ronny wrote: View Post
My least favorite ST book of all time. Red Sector is way down there as well.
Red Sector is appalling. Tim Lynch said that it "actively causes brain damage." I don't recognize any of the characters in the book.

Data fights Romulan ninjas. Let that sink in.

Terrible, terrible book that displays contempt for the audience.
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Old April 9 2013, 04:23 AM   #36
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Data fights Romulan ninjas. Let that sink in.
Honestly, that's kind of a cool idea, since the Romulans were dull as hell in their onscreen portrayals. But given Carey's feelings towards non-TOS stuff and her work on Broken Bow plus Ship of the Line, I'm not surprised that she botched it.
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Old April 9 2013, 05:03 AM   #37
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

So I admit I'm pretty ignorant about the details of getting a book from the writer's head to a published product, but... isn't blaming Carey alone for whatever details she inserts a little silly? The books still had to be vetted by Paramount and edited by editors, right? And since they got published, obviously whoever's n charge of reading them thought that Carey's inserts weren't so bad...
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Old April 9 2013, 07:30 AM   #38
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

Elias Vaughn wrote: View Post
So I admit I'm pretty ignorant about the details of getting a book from the writer's head to a published product, but... isn't blaming Carey alone for whatever details she inserts a little silly? The books still had to be vetted by Paramount and edited by editors, right? And since they got published, obviously whoever's n charge of reading them thought that Carey's inserts weren't so bad...
Sure, but ultimate responsibility for these asides has to rest with the author. If she didn't make these asides, would the editors have gone out of their way to insert them into her text?
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Old April 9 2013, 07:34 AM   #39
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

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My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Ah, I see she got a second one in after Roddenberry had passed away. The others were written after the series was off the air.
Isn't the story that her dedication of Ghost Ship to someone who served in the Marine Corps was a point of contention between her and Roddenberry? Roddenberry wanted it cut because he felt that it glorified the military, Carey was adamant that an author's dedication is a private thing. That was her last Star Trek book until after Roddenberry's death, as I recall.
If that story is true I think it's kind of lame on Roddenberry's part. The Marine she dedicated the book to was her father. She should have been able to dedicate a book to her father and if she wanted to mention his being a Marine, well, why the hell not?

As far as the book itself goes, that is one I give Carey a 100% pass on for the characters being so off since it was written before the series aired.
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Old April 9 2013, 07:55 AM   #40
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

ronny wrote: View Post
Lt. Cheka Wey wrote: View Post
Ship of the Line was fine. I am siding with Carey, Enterprise deserves all the criticism it can get.
Here are my issues with Ship of the Line.

The base of the book is from a 30 seconds scene in one episode and she got pretty much every detail wrong. In the episode Bates is sitting in his chair calm, cool and collected with 2 female crew members in site. In the book the Bozeman entered the time loop because they were in a pitched battle with Klingons, I think some bridge crew was killed but not positive and it's an all male crew. I can forgive mistakes but I don't know how you can make a mistake this big a mistake unless you've got a story in mind and damn the facts.

The other thing is Kirk is treated as such a god like figure and Picard is such a slouch that the mere presence of a hologram of Kirk talking to him is enough to make Picard think that maybe he could be a good captain after all. I just didn't believe anything Picard said in the book was actually said by Picard. And the resolution was totally unbelievable to me.

My least favorite ST book of all time. Red Sector is way down there as well.
She also blows the big moment between Madred and Picard because she seems to think that The Best of Both Worlds occurs after Chain of Command and thus their conversation makes no sense (in part).
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Old April 9 2013, 09:13 AM   #41
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

I read Ship of the Line a few months back, and I liked it okay. Didn't love it, didn't hurl it across the room. But the more you guys pick it apart, the lower it seems to be sinking in my estimation...I guess I am easily influenced!

I really liked Final Frontier and Best Destiny, so don't anybody ruin those for me!
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Old April 9 2013, 02:55 PM   #42
F. King Daniel
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

IIRC, Peter David has snuck in a few barbs at TV Trek over the years - mocking Neelix and Voyager at the start of New Frontier, and trashing Richard Arnold and Gene Roddenberry in Before Dishonor over the Vendetta/female Borg fiasco.
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ronny wrote: View Post
My least favorite ST book of all time. Red Sector is way down there as well.
Red Sector is appalling. Tim Lynch said that it "actively causes brain damage." I don't recognize any of the characters in the book.

Data fights Romulan ninjas. Let that sink in.

Terrible, terrible book that displays contempt for the audience.
I loved Red Sector, by far the best of the Double Helix series. I certainly detected no contempt.
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Old April 9 2013, 03:36 PM   #43
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

I really liked Ship of the Line when I read it many years ago... huh. Maybe I was easily pleased.

The "Broken Bow" story is pretty funny, though.
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Old April 9 2013, 07:13 PM   #44
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote: View Post
That kind of makes me want to read the novelization of broken Bow now. That sounds like a pretty funny way to write a novelization. The book is a bit too expensive (around $9 on amazon for some reason) but, while I don't hate enterprise like some people do, a book novelization of Broken Bow thats written by someone who apparently hated the script sounds awesome. They should do more books like that.
No, no they shouldn't. Or, at least, these books shouldn't be written by people who are supposed to be writing the official novelizations of the shows in question.

What Carey did was unprofessional in the extreme. Going by that and the time, this would go a long way towards explaining why a prolific Trek novelist would suddenly stop producing new novels.
Oh, I'm not saying it was professional. I can just think of some movies that I'd love to see novelizations of in this style. Heck, let an annoyed Diane Carey write the Into Darkness novelization and I would actually pay money for something connected to the horrible JJ verse again.
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Old April 9 2013, 07:40 PM   #45
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Re: Brannon Braga: Not a Diane Carey Fan?

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Never been a fan of hers, and this doesn't materially affect my previous impressions. She did one TNG novel - there were reasons for that as well.
Actually she did 4:

Ghost Ship
Descent
Ancient Blood
Ship of the Line
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