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Old June 24 2013, 06:12 PM   #256
Dorian Thompson
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Choosing his wife and kids in and of itself isn't weak, but Ted didn't choose them because he truly wished to remain or to do the right thing. Ted tasted the forbidden fruit with Peggy, got her hopes up, and then conveniently decided he had to "do the right thing" just after "getting some." He chose his wife out of fear of stirring the pot. It's fine that he wants his wife. It's laudable, but he decides this after he leads Peggy on and conveniently just right after he gets her into bed the first time. It comes across as spineless. I'm big enough to have an affair and tell the other woman I'm in love with her.....but I can't pull the trigger. Ted wants to leave his wife, but he's too scared to do it. If you're too scared, don't start up with someone else.
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Old June 24 2013, 10:11 PM   #257
Pondwater
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Choosing his wife and kids in and of itself isn't weak, but Ted didn't choose them because he truly wished to remain or to do the right thing. Ted tasted the forbidden fruit with Peggy, got her hopes up, and then conveniently decided he had to "do the right thing" just after "getting some." He chose his wife out of fear of stirring the pot. It's fine that he wants his wife. It's laudable, but he decides this after he leads Peggy on and conveniently just right after he gets her into bed the first time. It comes across as spineless. I'm big enough to have an affair and tell the other woman I'm in love with her.....but I can't pull the trigger. Ted wants to leave his wife, but he's too scared to do it. If you're too scared, don't start up with someone else.
Word! Could not have said it any better than that.
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Old June 24 2013, 11:06 PM   #258
J.T.B.
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
Choosing his wife and kids in and of itself isn't weak, but Ted didn't choose them because he truly wished to remain or to do the right thing. Ted tasted the forbidden fruit with Peggy, got her hopes up, and then conveniently decided he had to "do the right thing" just after "getting some." He chose his wife out of fear of stirring the pot. It's fine that he wants his wife. It's laudable, but he decides this after he leads Peggy on and conveniently just right after he gets her into bed the first time.
Interesting, I saw it differently. I thought Ted's home life was set up in the season well enough that I felt he really cared about his family and they cared about and needed him. He led Peggy on, yes. She also took some initiative toward winding up in bed with him. If it was just about "getting some," he could have kept getting it for a while without committing, as Peggy wanted.

It comes across as spineless. I'm big enough to have an affair and tell the other woman I'm in love with her.....but I can't pull the trigger. Ted wants to leave his wife, but he's too scared to do it. If you're too scared, don't start up with someone else.
Well, was having the affair a good decision or not? I regard it as a mistake, and a very serious one. But the mistake having been made, I'd say it's better to limit the damage and cut it off rather than keep it going and compounding it. And I felt there was more than just fear keeping him with his family. I thought in the scene when Nan was sweet to him as he got into bed with her after being with Peggy he was starting to think that was where he really belonged.
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Old June 25 2013, 05:02 AM   #259
Lord Garth
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

I don't think Ted really knew what he wanted at all until he got into bed with Nan and then really thought about it. He made a mistake and tried to fix it after the damage with Peggy was done.

I'm glad Ted stayed with his family. It's bad enough people think Peggy slept with Don to become a copywriter. Being involved with Ted adds fuel to the fire.

I hope Don doesn't return to SC&P. If the seventh season weren't going to be the last I think he would. But since there's nothing after the seventh season, he shouldn't return. Let the punishment stick.

SC&P will be much more stable from now own. Sterling Cooper has managed to survive Don Draper.

Even look at the SCDP --> SC&P transition. With only acronyms, the D was taken out of the picture while the other letters remained the same. The product was absent from all the ads earlier in the season because Don himself was absent.

SC&P is a stock that would make for a better investment without someone so unstable in such a powerful position.

Duck must've loved it to see Don leaving the building in disgrace. Must've loved searching for Don's replacement. Don is in the same boat Duck was at the end of S2. Don orchestrated a merger with CGC in S6 while Duck orchestrated an absorption into a PPL. In both cases, Sterling Cooper survived the transition but the people who set the combinations in motion were out because they screwed up. Don constantly competed with Ted as much as Duck constantly competed with Duck. Don's drinking was as bad as Duck's. Don pulled a lot more antics that Duck ever did. It was natural that Don was let go.
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Old June 25 2013, 05:53 AM   #260
Lord Garth
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

I feel like there's one final piece to the Dick Whitman puzzle we still haven't seen or heard yet.

Now that we know what Uncle Mac's was like, I really doubt that Dick stuck around any longer than he had to. I think he would've moved out the first chance he got, probably in his late-teens. He dropped out of high school, so he must've been working early on.

He was 24 when he went to Korea in 1950 and he was clearly a rookie soldier.

There's a gap from 1942/1944-1950 that's completely unaccounted for. There had to be some sort of spark that made Don decide, "I have to get out of here!" "Here" meaning Pennsylvania. Coal Country. Not necessarily Uncle Mac's.
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Old June 25 2013, 11:33 AM   #261
aridas sofia
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

I think that subconsciously, Ted sees Peggy as the trophy in his battle with Don. She was Don's protege. Having her symbolizes Ted's ultimate victory over Don. It's just that, once Don is out, the spoils are not so sweet. Not Peggy per se, but the whole sordid business that Peggy has come to represent to Ted. He did after all encourage Don to take that drink before he made his chocolate pitch. Screwing your enemy's protege is one thing. Kicking a sick and struggling man off the cart is another.
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Old June 25 2013, 11:56 AM   #262
Kestra
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Affair-wise, Ted comes off way worse than Don. I was totally disgusted by him in this ep, though it had been coming on for some time.
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Old June 25 2013, 08:49 PM   #263
gblews
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Donald Draper wrote: View Post
No words. I was blown away!
Same here. Don is basically outing himself in unexpected places. First at a client's meeting and then it looks like he's going to do the same with his kids. I even got the feeling he's was going to tell Megan before she flew out the door.
Meagan already knows about "Dick Whitman".
Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
I don't get the man.
I'm not surprised. Don is a very complex character but you seem to see only the surfacy, obviously assholish and contradictory stuff that Don does. Weiner has, over the last 6 seasons, shown us what, and from where Don came, and why he is who he is. There is much more to the character than the things you choose to focus on.

I get the impression he is your favorite character but you are missing several dimensions of the character that might help you get a clearer picture of who he is and might make him even more interesting (or enjoyable -- assuming you want to enjoy the character).

BTW, Peggy bears at least some of the responsibility for being "led on" by Ted. Part of her wanted to be led on. She knew at all times that Ted was married. Not absolving Ted for his deceit and weakness, but Peggy brought it ob herself.
Was that a subpoena for her and Don to testify at a divorce hearing for Sylvia and Arthur? My sound was having trouble at the very beginning.
The burglar was apparently caught and the D.A.'s office wants Sally to testify or at least wants her statement.
J.T.B. wrote: View Post
It actually didn't end as bleak as I thought it might. The ties of family have been strong this season, and they appear to be revealing some redemptive power. It was family bonds, apparently, that got Duck back on the rails. It was family bonds that got Don to loosen up and sing a song in public with his son and ex-wife. It was family bonds -- his own and Ted's -- that made Don realize he couldn't go to California. The appeal of Stan's California pitch to Don's instincts of moving and re-inventing was so strong that he ripped it off almost word for word. For all the hurt it's caused Megan, it was still a more mature Don that ultimately rejected it. Rachel chucked Don because she couldn't respect herself being with a man who would desert his family. Megan may come to see it that way, or maybe not. But Don starting over and reinventing himself for the right reasons, that's got some real positive potential.
I found the end, when Don physically took his kids to the house, then standing in the street out in front and telling them that this is where he grew up, quite moving. They made a point of letting us here Bobby say that "this is a bad neighborhood". So the kids knew where they were. For Don Draper, this was beyond huge, in fact I'de say it was the most biggest and most positive step we've seen Don make toward understanding himself and allowing those whom he loves most to actually enter his life.

It made me nuts with curiosity about where and how this most damaged character would end up.

I agree with the poster who said that a physical suicide for Don is almost surely not going to happen. This show is too good for that.
I felt like I missed something: How did the California job go from "one man and a desk" to a two-partner operation?
I wondered about this too, especially since they made such a point of telling us (several times) that it was a one man operation.

Most interesting episode. Can't wait for net season.
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Old June 25 2013, 09:09 PM   #264
J.T.B.
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

gblews wrote: View Post
I found the end, when Don physically took his kids to the house, then standing in the street out in front and telling them that this is where he grew up, quite moving. They made a point of letting us here Bobby say that "this is a bad neighborhood". So the kids knew where they were. For Don Draper, this was beyond huge, in fact I'de say it was the most biggest and most positive step we've seen Don make toward understanding himself and allowing those whom he loves most to actually enter his life.
I felt the same way. And remember the song that played as Don looked at his kids:
I've looked at love from both sides now
From give and take, and still somehow
It's love's illusions I recall
I really don't know love at all
I usually don't speculate on what direction things will go, but that scene was very suggestive of redemptive potential.
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Old June 26 2013, 03:47 AM   #265
Dorian Thompson
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Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

I'm not surprised. Don is a very complex character but you seem to see only the surfacy, obviously assholish and contradictory stuff that Don does. Weiner has, over the last 6 seasons, shown us what, and from where Don came, and why he is who he is. There is much more to the character than the things you choose to focus on.
I know there's more to the character than what's on the surface. I see what Weiner has chosen to present as the traumatic events that molded Don, but Don's stinging cruelty at several points during the series have often surpassed what might be considered expected due to the abuse Don suffered. There are times the character's behavior has been completely beyond the pale. Shocking, even. Hamm really nailed it. Don completely rejecting his brother was one of those moments. His treatment of Betty at times really tiptoed that line.

I don't know if its Hamm's portrayal, or the writing, but I've always had a hard time sympathizing with the character. Pete's done equally horrible things, but there's something about the pathetic-ness of Pete and his lack of social graces that makes me feel a level of sympathy even though he deserves a thousand smacks for his behavior. Could be the actor. Kartheiser's never gotten enough kuds, IMHO.
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Last edited by Dorian Thompson; June 26 2013 at 04:00 AM.
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Old June 29 2013, 03:46 AM   #266
the G-man
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Los Angeles is Detroit with palm trees. Heh.

Don sitting in the bar drinking like Darren Stevens used to on 'Bewitched' watching Darren Stevens on 'bewitched' was one of the greatest meta moments in recent television history.

Pete's mother falling off the ship was a little too soap opera and a little too Roselyn Shay's going down an elevator shaft for me.

For your consideration advertisement: Elizabeth Moss probably should get an Emmy this year.

That look that Sally and Don gave each other and was goddamned heartbreaking. Well done. One of the things I've always said about don as far as being redemptive is that even when he fails he tries to be a good father. It seems like the realization that he's been a bad father is what is triggering his possible rehabilitation.
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Old June 30 2013, 12:40 AM   #267
Lord Garth
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

I always listen both commentaries whenever I purchase the latest season of Mad Men on Blu-Ray.

This time, I'll be even more interested than usual in what Matt Weiner has to say in the commentaries.
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Old June 30 2013, 05:45 AM   #268
the G-man
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

J.T.B. wrote: View Post
remember the song that played as Don looked at his kids:
I've looked at love from both sides now
From give and take, and still somehow
It's love's illusions I recall
I really don't know love at all
I usually don't speculate on what direction things will go, but that scene was very suggestive of redemptive potential.
Even moreso when you consider this part of the song:
Oh but now old friends are acting strange
They shake their heads, they say I've changed

Well something's lost but something's gained
In living every day

I've looked at life from both sides now
From WIN and LOSE and still somehow
It's life's illusions I recall
I really don't know life at all
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Old September 17 2013, 09:38 PM   #269
Lord Garth
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

It's a major irony that I only post on TrekBBS anymore to talk about Mad Men but there we are...

... sorry to bump this thread, but I figured fellow fans should know, if they haven't kept up, that the seventh season is being split up. Seven episodes will be airing in Spring 2014 and seven in Spring 2015.

Here's a link.
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Old September 17 2013, 09:44 PM   #270
Q2UnME
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Re: Mad Men season 6 (spoilers)

Jeezzzzz .... milk the cash cow till it bleeds ...
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