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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old April 7 2013, 02:16 PM   #16
Tosk
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

I would never skip an episode on a first watching. That's crazy talk.

But going back to a series? That's a different deal. I probably won't watch The Muse or Realm of Fear or Threshold ever again. ...Amongst others.
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Old April 7 2013, 02:40 PM   #17
david g
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

[QUOTE=JirinPanthosa;7908805]I don't remember the name of the episode, but what about the episode where O'Brien is tried in Cardassian court? That is extremely interesting and specific.

I dont recall having seen this episode--which season is it from?
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Old April 7 2013, 05:08 PM   #18
david g
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

The tension that I am trying to explicate or to get at is that, for a series as obviously intelligent, probing, and accomplished as DS9 is...a lot of it, a surprisingly large amount of it, is dross.
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Old April 7 2013, 05:25 PM   #19
Melakon
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

david g wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I don't remember the name of the episode, but what about the episode where O'Brien is tried in Cardassian court? That is extremely interesting and specific.
I dont recall having seen this episode--which season is it from?
Tribunal. The Cardassian legal system is like something out of Lewis Carroll. Season 2.
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Old April 7 2013, 10:24 PM   #20
DS9forever
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

"Rivals" is an episode that could be seen as being skippable, although it actually has the great subplot of Rom going to work for Quark's competitor.
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Old April 8 2013, 09:29 AM   #21
lurok
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

I feel bad now read title as shippable episodes abound.

And yes, many skippable episodes also.
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Old April 8 2013, 09:39 AM   #22
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

During our last rewatch, we skipped a few alright. The ones that come to mind are Tribunal, Paradise and Valiant.
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Old April 8 2013, 11:03 PM   #23
HaventGotALife
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

david g wrote: View Post
I have been returning to DS9, trying to get a handle on it and to "get" it. I am a fan of all of the other Trek series except for ENT. I recognize the importance and the frequent brilliance of DS9. But I will confess to finding a lot of the episodes to be skippable.

These episodes range from the awful Ferengi episodes to episodes that focus on "character," which I often find surprisingly dull. For example, Dr. Bashir is perfectly acceptable in ensemble uses, but when he gets individual episodes, they are hopelessly uninteresting.

While the Cardassian occupation of Bajor and its aftermath can certainly be deeply fascinating at times, I also think that--with some exceptions like the great Dukat--the series generally failed to make Cardassian culture come alive, seem specific and truly interesting. This is a failure considering how much was spent on the Cardassians, who never get the richer treatment given the Klingons by Ron Moore.

It seems to me that the Dominion War plot was absolutely the best thing to happen to the series. The Changelings, especially as led by the great Salome Jens as the Female Changeling, are truly fascinating, as is the war and its multifaceted races and dimensions.

As a veteran of the VOY vs DS9 wars at the Trek BBS, I hope that my post is not interpreted as bashing, which really isnt my intention. I appreciate the great aspects of DS9 w/o being able to get past certain fairly huge lapses in its execution.
I agree--early Cardassians are just about being the bad guys. The acting in this regard, is horrible. They were always meant to be the bad guys. I think they did do some background on what life was like on the station in episodes like "Necessary Evil."

You seem to be missing the connective tissue, however, to the Dominion War. This is a show about oppression. The Bajorans are the peaceful race that laid down their weapons after taking them up to be assertive enough to defend themselves. They are what is supposed to happen when you find yourself oppressed.

The Dominion, the Founders in particular, are a human reaction--control what can hurt you--and therefore, have no respect for the enemy. They are a cautionary tale.

Take a side-Trek episode like "Captive Pursuit" about the Tosk and the hunters. This is what Bajor would be like if they never formed a resistance or had a belief in themselves as spiritual beings. Worth. "I am Tosk." That is an O'Brien episode where he uses his Starfleet training to show the Tosk that he should not be hunted. That's Starfleet's role in the universe before they face an existential threat in the Dominion.

And then lines like "Take a look at this people. It says something about this ship. It says we will fight, and we will keep on fighting, till we can't fight anymore!" come alive. It's about forming a Starfleet resistance to the Dominion. It says how we would handle being enslaved in the 24th Century.

The Ferengi are funny depictions of the same theme. They are there for comic relief, but it talks about oppression of women, workers rights, what the stakes are for a race in the Alpha Quadrant that isn't a power, and what commerce does to the ordinary decisions we would make more morally without it. For instance, Brunt hating Quark's whole family, demanding the Quark break a contract or kill himself in "Body Parts" and then three seasons later, after Quark is about to become Nagus, he shows Quark all the respect he can give him, even groveling. Or showing Quark's reaction to the continued threat to Deep Space Nine: "First it was the Cardassians, then it was the Dominion, now it's the Klingons! How is a Ferengi supposed to make an honest living in a place like this!" (The Way of the Warrior). And the overall arc of the Ferengi is that they are corrupted by the "sniveling hu-mans." Nog joining Starfleet Academy, Quark's affection for Odo, Bashir and O'Brien inspiring a Union, Rom joining the Bajorans, and Ishka softening Zek, Rom becoming Nagus. They are all moving, evolving, to a more Federation-like place. It's the effect that we can have on one another in a multicultural society. And there is always the old guard that never want to go into the more progressive era. Studies of multiculturalism have shown this. The home culture is seen as "in threat" by the "new ways."

If you have the theme down, you can see a little more of what they were trying to do with the show.
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Last edited by HaventGotALife; April 9 2013 at 12:40 AM.
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Old April 9 2013, 12:57 AM   #24
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

Dream wrote: View Post
I don't understand people that skip episodes. Just watch the whole thing at least once. Better to see everything at least once than let someone tell you which episodes to watch.

Better to see the good along with the bad, so you can appreciate the good stuff later on. You can always decide to never watch an episode again.
When I call an episode 'Skippable' I mean the second time around.

Except Threshold, Fair Haven, and Code of Honor.
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Old April 9 2013, 01:55 AM   #25
david g
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

Thanks for your post, Haventgotalife. I see what you mean, although I can never get past my aversion to Ferengi episodes!
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Old April 9 2013, 04:12 AM   #26
HaventGotALife
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

david g wrote: View Post
Thanks for your post, Haventgotalife. I see what you mean, although I can never get past my aversion to Ferengi episodes!
Yeah, I don't like them all that much, either. It's nice that I can conceptualize what they are about, however. It's easier to stomach, I mean, after seeing that. It's really a love, me and Deep Space Nine. I think the show was way before its time and it dealt with post-Cold War issues before they showed up in our headlines, American headlines. It seems to me that Star Trek is supposed to age well. Episodes of TNG and TOS still resonate today. DS9 does the same. When I get done watching a show, I just wish there were more episodes. I would've loved to see the show come back to center, forge a peace with the Dominion. That is what we had to do after World War II, the Cold War, every war. That's just as interesting to me as the war was. And it would've made it a better show, I think.
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Old April 10 2013, 05:27 AM   #27
david g
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

As a huge VOY and TOS fan, I wish I could feel the DS9 love. What I do feel is admiration for it.
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Old April 10 2013, 06:41 AM   #28
Ryva Brall
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

I just started re-watching DS9. I'm still in the first season at the moment, and I'm wishing I had skipped "Move Along Home". YIKES. As much as I love DS9, that episode was ridonkulous. That game was absolute nonsense. And was I the only one who wanted to kick those aliens in the shins? How do they get away with torturing the senior staff with absolutely no consequences? Urgh.

Also having similar feelings toward "If Wishes Were Horses". But I believe these are the only DS9 episodes I truly dislike. That I can remember, anyway.
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Old April 11 2013, 09:00 AM   #29
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

I love both "Move Along Home" and "If Wishes Were Horses". Sure, they're part of the first season TNG-lite shtick, but I love those characters and seeing them in those situations is really fun. I guess it's more fun after you've seen the whole series, though.
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Old April 11 2013, 11:44 PM   #30
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Skippable episodes abound...

I love the idea behind Move Along Home but the actual obstacles in the game weren't written very well. If they were more creative with the puzzles and hazards the group faced it could have been a great episode.

And they got away without consequences because they have diplomatic immunity.
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