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Old April 10 2013, 06:28 PM   #1
BizarroStormy
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Yesterday's campus attack

As most of us know by now, Warped Loser with Crappy Haircut #137549 who will remain deservedly nameless decided to begin a stabbing spree at his community college as he had nothing better to do, until he was tackled and subdued by his fellow students. This time, thank God, nobody was killed. (Variations of this were considerably more fatal in China when adults similarly began to attack younger children). Warped #137549 was using a box-cutter, which is obviously shorter-bladed.

No body count, thank God, at least not fatally. THAT was refreshing. When was the last campus mass attack that wasn't? (''Mass'' technically implying four or more victims.) The reasons nobody died yesterday in this are pretty obvious. A blade was used instead of the usual cliche assault weapon.

It would have been even more refreshing if once in a while, the campus police would be in a position to shoot the assailant's kneecap BEFORE they continue inflicting pain on their fellow students. One, well-trained, armed police officer could give the perp a bit of pain for a damn change before harming others or himself. And everybody would still be alive.

So I expect the first argument regarding knives will be used across the board, and justifiably so. I also hope that the benefits of police protection won't be completely discounted. I'd hope both wings of the USA bird will consider both points. Of course, I keep wondering how many police officers this community college had.

Should Warped #137549 get life imprisonment for his terrorizing? Or are the wounds too superficial?
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Old April 10 2013, 06:42 PM   #2
Rusty Nova
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Re: Yesterday's campus attack

do a bunch of attempted murders add up to life inprisonment? i hope so.

even with a knife they're lucky no ones dead.
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Old April 10 2013, 10:21 PM   #3
BizarroStormy
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Re: Yesterday's campus attack

Since he's officially been charged with aggravated assault, now maybe it's in the ten-year ballpark. Maybe.

I may be in error about the box-cutter. Other reports referred to it as ''razor-like.''
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Old April 10 2013, 11:00 PM   #4
JarodRussell
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Re: Yesterday's campus attack

foxhot wrote: View Post
So I expect the first argument regarding knives will be used across the board, and justifiably so. I also hope that the benefits of police protection won't be completely discounted. I'd hope both wings of the USA bird will consider both points. Of course, I keep wondering how many police officers this community college had.
The important thing here is: it was a knife and no one died. Had it been a gun, several people would have been killed before he could have been subdued.

That's the point. Take away the firearms, and you automatically reduce the fatalities. You will never be able to stop meltdowns and killing spree attempts. But gun (weapon) control reduces the fatal effects dramatically. There's no reason whatsoever for a civilian to own an automatic firearm. There's also no reason for a civilian to own a sharp sword. Knifes, chainsaws, etc... are TOOLS. Guns and swords are WEAPONS. Distinction by purpose. Civilians do not need weapons of any kind. And even for certain tools you'd need a proper license before you're allowed to own one (chainsaws, for instance. Why the fuck do you need one when you're not a lumberjack?). A hunter needs a rifle for sure. That becomes his tool to do his job. But he does certainly not need an M16 or G36. When will people finally get that?

Last edited by JarodRussell; April 10 2013 at 11:11 PM.
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Old April 10 2013, 11:13 PM   #5
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Re: Yesterday's campus attack

That's Part A of the point. Arming teachers is an understandably touchy subject, and mandatory arming is obviously counter-productive. But in terms of police protection, there's a variable many absolutely don't want to touch. Even when they're well-trained.

Yes, it would cost a lot of money. Not much doesn't, these days. There are few guarantees. But if it saves one life.....

I'm not for arming churches or schools per se. I'm for protecting them. One of the few times a would-be shooter WAS stopped by a security guard happened to be a church, roughly about 2010 if memory serves. There are grey areas all around.

It's the sitting ducks principle, and there needs to be less gridlock. In some quarters, there's total aversion to the concept of police protection. But since these massacres are occuring all too frequently, that's one point from LaPierre you can't fully rule out.

At least in terms of GROUPS of police, very few if any of these murdererers were willing to shoot at THEM. They kill the unarmed over and over. They kill themselves almost as often over and over. But how many actually confront the police?
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Old April 10 2013, 11:23 PM   #6
Miss Chicken
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Re: Yesterday's campus attack

I hadn't heard about this campus attack. It is upsetting that things like this happen. It is fortunate that no-one was killed unlike yesterday's rampage in a small village in Serbia in which a 60 year old man killed his mother and son, and then went door-to-door knocking on his neighbours' houses and shooting them. 13 dead including a 2 year old boy. The man also shot his wife and himself and both are in a critical condition.
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Old April 10 2013, 11:42 PM   #7
Rusty Nova
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Re: Yesterday's campus attack

the obvious solution from a non-american perspective is just ban guns.

however i realise that won't happen.

what about some kind of wireless device built in to all guns so they won't work within range of a certain signal. so for instance, schools, playgrounds, shops, churches, individual homes could all be working gun free. i'm sure thats quite feasable with current technology. it would mean everyone giving up or having old weaponry modified, but i reckon it could work
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Old April 11 2013, 02:01 AM   #8
BizarroStormy
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Re: Yesterday's campus attack

junxon wrote: View Post
the obvious solution from a non-american perspective is just ban guns.

however i realise that won't happen.

what about some kind of wireless device built in to all guns so they won't work within range of a certain signal. so for instance, schools, playgrounds, shops, churches, individual homes could all be working gun free. i'm sure thats quite feasable with current technology. it would mean everyone giving up or having old weaponry modified, but i reckon it could work
Nice idea. I wish I could agree it being feasible. For something so game-changing and revolutionary. Congress would no doubt insist having themselves decide on something so major. And we all know how well that's been going lately. Even the ACLU might object to this scenario on typically convoluted grounds. Or equally likely whoever was killed by gun in an area separate area from the ones you designated would sue the manufacturer, the state, and anyone else except the perpetrator....
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Old April 12 2013, 12:17 AM   #9
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Re: Yesterday's campus attack

ACLU? I think you are confusing them with the NRA.
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Old April 12 2013, 01:46 PM   #10
BizarroStormy
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Re: Yesterday's campus attack

Not really. Neither one's chief priority lies with safety of the entire general public. The ACLU concentrates on individual's rights, occasionally creating new ones.
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Old April 12 2013, 02:16 PM   #11
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Yesterday's campus attack

junxon wrote: View Post
the obvious solution from a non-american perspective is just ban guns.
Well, this isn't the most persuasive case to argue for banning guns since it was a box cutter. However, it does show the difference between a knife attack and a firearm attack.

junxon wrote: View Post
do a bunch of attempted murders add up to life inprisonment? i hope so.
It'll be quite a long time. Even if not absolutely life in prison, it'll keep him away long enough that the odds of him ever being a threat again are quite low. Plus, depending on the facts of the case, there could be an argument for civil commitment.
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Old April 12 2013, 02:27 PM   #12
Rusty Nova
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Re: Yesterday's campus attack

well OP was talking about arming teachers and guns in general within the idea of 'what can be done' so i think my that first quote is completely valid.
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Old April 12 2013, 02:29 PM   #13
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Re: Yesterday's campus attack

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
(chainsaws, for instance. Why the fuck do you need one when you're not a lumberjack?)
Anyone who lives in a moderately wooded area may need to cut up a fallen tree for firewood or removal now and then. I've done it and I'm a software engineer.

I wouldn't mind requiring a quick proficiency and safety test before purchase, though.
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Old April 12 2013, 02:38 PM   #14
I Am Groot
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Re: Yesterday's campus attack

junxon wrote: View Post
the obvious solution from a non-american perspective is just ban guns.

however i realise that won't happen.

what about some kind of wireless device built in to all guns so they won't work within range of a certain signal. so for instance, schools, playgrounds, shops, churches, individual homes could all be working gun free. i'm sure thats quite feasable with current technology. it would mean everyone giving up or having old weaponry modified, but i reckon it could work
While I appreciate the attempt at finding an innovative solution, that sounds so incredibly easy to bypass and to cause problems that I don't think it would be feasible even if it could clear the legal hurdles.

In order to be fitted to an existing gun, you would need something that will interrupt the mechanical operation of the gun. That would require it to fit externally (like a trigger lock) without being too bulky or internally where space is at a premium. That would place it near the surface and easily accessible for those who would wish to disable the electronics that would make such a system possible. There's already a huge market for making legal and illegal modifications to firearms, and exploiting systems like this would be a boon for that industry.

Likewise, if it were built in to a new gun, those who would choose to buy one and not just get an old black market non-electronic version wouldn't want to have to replace the whole gun each time a chip suffered damaged (which is a distinct possibility in a weapon with an internal explosion going off beside the chip every time you practice), so it's placement would likely be somewhere where a manufacturer could easily replace it, and again that would make it accessible to those who would want to disable it.

I could see wireless jammers or electronic signal shielding being sold illegally to block such signals, or conversely, I could see criminals buying the wireless transmitters themselves in order to disable the weapons of people they plan on robbing or kidnapping or killing in areas not covered by the transmitters.

Also, while I'm no advocate of arming teachers or having armed guards in every school like the NRA, it's also true that (rarely) people are saved or the gunman is stopped by an armed citizen with a firearm. So while I would not be in favor of increasing the number of firearms present in a given area as a preventative measure against mass shootings, because that's counter-productive, I also would not want to completely limit the possibility of someone in the area who happens to be armed intervening in an emergency. At least while we still live in a country where gun ownership is so prolific.

I hope it doesn't come off like I'm just trying to shoot down your idea out of hand, because I'm not. Like I said, I do appreciate the attempt to think outside the box.

Personally, I think in order for the gun culture in America to truly change it's not going to be something that's going to be regulated out of existence (which is not to say I'm against reasonable regulations; I'm not) but rather it's going to have to be a generational shift combined with education/overcoming ignorance much like the ones we've had for smoking in the recent past and gay acceptance and gay marriage in the present (which is not saying those two things are directly comparable in any way, just that their public perception has changed rapidly for the worse and better respectively, and especially quickly in the latter case). Growing up and going to school in the 80s and 90s, it's remarkable to me seeing the amount of change on those issues that has come about as a result of education in the first place and exposure being used to combat ignorance, intolerance, disgust, and fear in the second. I hope that the perception of guns will change rapidly as well, but to where they are seen in a more negative light like cigarettes are today.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
That's the point. Take away the firearms, and you automatically reduce the fatalities. You will never be able to stop meltdowns and killing spree attempts. But gun (weapon) control reduces the fatal effects dramatically. There's no reason whatsoever for a civilian to own an automatic firearm. There's also no reason for a civilian to own a sharp sword. Knifes, chainsaws, etc... are TOOLS. Guns and swords are WEAPONS. Distinction by purpose. Civilians do not need weapons of any kind. And even for certain tools you'd need a proper license before you're allowed to own one (chainsaws, for instance. Why the fuck do you need one when you're not a lumberjack?). A hunter needs a rifle for sure. That becomes his tool to do his job. But he does certainly not need an M16 or G36. When will people finally get that?
This is taking things to absurd levels. You can use chainsaws in your yard to cut up overgrown trees and branches. Not everyone needs to hire a contractor to do everything for them. How many chainsaw rampages have their been outside of horror movies set in Texas and futuristic gameshow Schwarzenegger films? Certainly not enough to justify banning them unless it's specifically part of your work requirements.
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Last edited by I Am Groot; April 12 2013 at 02:55 PM.
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