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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old August 13 2013, 06:30 PM   #31
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

Praetor wrote: View Post
Big awesome engines, crappy underpowered power plant?
I suppose that would depend on how she is scaled. Are those GCS engines the same size as the Enterprise-D's? Or the New Orleans? Should we base the scale on the engines, or the bridge module? Or the size of the windows? Or Voyager's shuttlebay door? Or the original Reliant superstructure?
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Old August 13 2013, 06:33 PM   #32
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

^^^ As I mentioned in a previous post (I was probably typing it at the exact same moment you were typing this ), they were probably left-overs from an unfinished Nebula prototype (like the original Melbourne) stuck in a drydock somewhere. It has smaller engines that look like they would perfectly match what's on the Trieste, scale-wise.
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Old August 13 2013, 06:37 PM   #33
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

I'm probably weird in that I've never liked some of the conjectural designs that showed up in the Encyclopedia, at least the ones that are still primarily conjectural (such as the Merced). I guess to me there's no reason those ships couldn't potentially be part of an existing class, and just inventing some random unseen design seems lazy. But I'm probably overthinking it.
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Old August 13 2013, 07:07 PM   #34
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

Unicron wrote: View Post
I'm probably weird in that I've never liked some of the conjectural designs that showed up in the Encyclopedia, at least the ones that are still primarily conjectural (such as the Merced). I guess to me there's no reason those ships couldn't potentially be part of an existing class, and just inventing some random unseen design seems lazy. But I'm probably overthinking it.
I'm not quite understanding what you said. There are no designs associated with the conjectural classes (except maybe the Trieste), so what don't you like? Or do you mean that you don't like the fan designs people have come up with for them? Or do you just not like the concept of conjectural designs? If that's the case, I suppose I can understand. When the first Encyclopedia was written, there weren't a whole lot of other ship designs other than the movie models and two or three newer ones like the Constellation, Ambassador, and Nebula (two of which weren't even "brand-new" as of TNG), so I can understand Okuda's intent to "flesh out" Starfleet. But that's kind of irrelevant now.
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Old August 13 2013, 07:29 PM   #35
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

What I dislike, to a degree, is that there were a number of vessels mentioned only in dialogue (such as the W359 ships) that were initially listed as conjectural designs, and later some of those details were actually fleshed out and identified. Some of them, like the USS Trieste, the Merced class, Deneva class etc. remain as nothing more than names with no specific details (fan attempts aside), and it's likely such details would never be created by anyone who worked on the show. So, to me, and this is again partly due to my own unique weirdness, it would be easier to simply stick those ships as Miranda, Excelsior etc. No guesswork required that way.
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Old August 13 2013, 07:42 PM   #36
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

I see where you're coming from, Unicron. It's like don't tell me there are four other flavors of cake, and these are their names, if you're not going to let me eat them?

That said, I do somewhat admire the effort to try to expand the universe via this method beyond what budgetary constraints allow.

The problem with kitbashes, inherently, is that they're, well, kitbashes. Things are scaled weird. We can either choose to think of logical in-universe reasons why, or disregard certain details. (The latter being a slippery slope.) Given that the Trieste was not seen onscreen, it makes that choice here somewhat easy.
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Old August 13 2013, 07:51 PM   #37
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

Yeah, I understand why Mike Okuda invented those names for purposes of the Encyclopedia and the pressures that he and others would have worked under during production. I tend to like the W359 vessels and the Renaissance class reference because those wound up getting fleshed out, but that's probably just my OCD when it comes to technical stuff. I think in part too it's a bit of cynicism over the years when it comes to Treknical stuff, because it's been my experience that a lot of fan work has proven to be far better in depth and coordination than what was possible to establish on screen. And I feel like we, as fans, sometimes have gotten the short end of the stick because it'll never be recognized appropriately. But that's a discussion for its own thread.

Battletech did something similar when they made Technical Readout: 2750, the first TRO that dealt with Star League era warships. Most of the entries had references to warship classes that were conjectural for a long time, and were eventually fleshed out in full with the revised version TRO: 3057. The real fun with that one was when the 2750 warships were brought back for the Clan fleets and given entirely new art, which didn't entirely line up with the originals. That's caused more than a few cans of worms.
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Old August 13 2013, 08:42 PM   #38
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

I remember when I first got the DS9 Tech Manual and saw all those weird designs and I specifically remember thinking, "where the hell did THESE things come from? They can't be real!" mostly because the detailing of many of these background ships was hardly discernible on low-def screens at the time, and that most of those ships were nothing more than random pieces of AMT/ERTL Enterprise-A and Enterprise-D flotsam strewn around the screen. It wasn't until several years later, when photos of the actual filming miniatures started surfacing, combined with the publication of more detailed views in the Official Star Trek Fact Files, that I discovered the Tech Manual schematics came fairly close to what they really looked like and I was genuinely shocked how bizarrely designed they were.
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Old August 13 2013, 08:47 PM   #39
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

C'mon, I can't be the only one here who loves these bizarro kitbashes?



*crickets*
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Old August 13 2013, 08:48 PM   #40
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

I love _some_ of them. The Centaur and Shelly are my top favorites, and I even have a warm spot in my heart for the Jaeger. But the rest of them...not so much...

And, of course, we always talk about the big capital ships, but we can't ever truly forget poor ol' Tugboat Willy. I can see a bunch of Runabout parts in there, some AT-ST legs, D'Deridex warp nacelles and Voyager warp pylons at the very least. If we wanna talk about mixed scales, that little guy wins first prize!
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Old August 13 2013, 09:30 PM   #41
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

Are there any known pics of the actual filming model? EAS mentioned this spacedock unit I'd never noticed before. It appears next to the Enterprise in "11001001" and the footage was later recycled for "Remember Me." EAS also says it appeared with the Remmler array in "Starship Mine" although I couldn't spot it in the sceencaps.

"11001001" images

Pic 1
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Old August 13 2013, 09:38 PM   #42
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

I believe there are some, but I'll have to dig to find them. Unicron, I do better understand your point now.

I personally liked Centaur and the two-nacelle Connie saucer the most. The latter was very FJ-esque. The Yeager was okay from a distance.
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Old August 13 2013, 09:43 PM   #43
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

Unicron wrote: View Post
Are there any known pics of the actual filming model? EAS mentioned this spacedock unit I'd never noticed before. It appears next to the Enterprise in "11001001" and the footage was later recycled for "Remember Me." EAS also says it appeared with the Remmler array in "Starship Mine" although I couldn't spot it in the sceencaps.

"11001001" images

Pic 1
Pic 2
Huh...never noticed that one before. Looks like it has cylindrical TOS nacelles on it - bussards lit up on it and all.

Is this original footage or HD remastered footage? The pic looks very high-res and clean to be NTSC, but I could be wrong. If it is the new remastered HD footage, then maybe it's some little throw-away CG thing they put in with the upgrading process and no physical model actually exists.
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Old August 13 2013, 09:45 PM   #44
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

"Reading Rainbow" did a TNG special once, and it partly featured behind-the-scenes effects stuff.

As I recall, the little cylinders were made from disposable razors. I think they were meant to be workbee-style manipulator arms.
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Old August 13 2013, 10:31 PM   #45
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Re: U.S.S. Curry and other ships from DS9

It's the HD version, though the spacedock unit definitely existed in the original shots and isn't a modern addition. You can see it much more clearly in HD though. EAS has a picture of the physical model.
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