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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old April 6 2013, 04:29 PM   #91
xortex
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

Sphynx like. Yoeman Colt got away with saying 'It bucks the percentages.' To which Kirk said, 'Bucks?' How that got past the censors I'll never know.
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Old April 6 2013, 04:46 PM   #92
Nerys Myk
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

There's an episode of Star Trek with Colt and Kirk in a scene together?
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Old April 6 2013, 04:57 PM   #93
xortex
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

I guess it wasn't Colt but someone equally as beautiful if not more so. Was it Marianna Hill? as Dr. Helen Noel?
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Old April 6 2013, 05:00 PM   #94
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
^This.

If one wishes to make something look "futuristic", why would one endeavor to make it look "contemporary"?

I think mini skirts are fine onboard ship for certain personnel not involved in activities for which the mini skirt isn't suited. On landing party duty, I think the women should have always worn pants, because presumably they would be more protective. Though I guess it is arguable that 23rd century stockings are as warm and indestructible as the pants.
Celeste Yarnell didn't need no pants to kick ass in The Apple.
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Old April 6 2013, 05:20 PM   #95
Nerys Myk
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

xortex wrote: View Post
I guess it wasn't Colt but someone equally as beautiful if not more so. Was it Marianna Hill? as Dr. Helen Noel?
I don't know. Though I find nothing censor worthy about the word "bucks" or the context it was allegedly used.
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Old April 6 2013, 06:03 PM   #96
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Well, I suppose there is a difference between "futuristic" as an esthetic and "plausible as a technologically advanced future." I think that Forbidden Planet looks more futuristic than the Nostromo in Alien, but it does not look as real...and both are dated.
Interesting points.

Of course, any space craft moving through space doing far beyond what we can do today will look futuristic. But is it a plausible depiction? The original Enterprise model still looks amazingly futuristic to me. It also felt more "real" than the NCC-1701D, which had a peculiar "too clean" CGI appearance.

But as for the uniforms and interiors, TOS doesn't look very futuristic to me at all. It looks seriously dated. Even the iconic equipment employed, the phaser, communicator, and tricorder, all look like Art Deco relics now. The only thing that looks the most advanced to me from TOS is the transporter console. And of course, beaming people to planets is still intangible futurism (and always will be).


A few years ago, I felt like TOS was still "true" Star Trek. But now? The other series have grown much more on me. I go back to TOS now and it looks really dated. I enjoy watching it from time to time, but... I won't ever look at it the same. It's more like a revisit of nostalgia. Maybe because it has been with me too long.
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Old April 6 2013, 07:49 PM   #97
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

The difference between "futuristic" as an esthetic and designing a plausible future has a lot to do with looking at the present and the past - how is technology actually applied to the way people live, how have people adapted to it and how is it adapted to a world that already exists.

One class of futuristic sf design which makes the fissure between the two clear is all of those evocations of future versions of Los Angeles or New York or other major cities (like London, LOL), often supposed to exist in fifty or one hundred years, which consist of nothing but soaring new constructions. The designers are pleased to assume that everything currently existing is just bulldozed flat to make way for mile-high space needles.

Another real good example is "futuristic" costume design. Theiss designed "magic" clothing without apparent fastenings or closures. When I get dressed in the morning, though, I make use of laces, buttons, snaps, zippers, and occasionally Velcro. The newest and arguably most "magic," Velcro, is about sixty years old; lacings are at least five thousand years old and both are in daily use all over the developed world. If I'm envisioning plausible, likely future clothing as opposed to "futuristic" then I'm going to use laces and buttons and whatever else along with "magic" - because there are esthetic considerations beyond the utilitarian that are integral to what people choose. That's called "fashion," but the reverse is also true: there are practical considerations to what people choose that trump esthetics. There is a reason that we don't live in a Frank Lloyd Wright world, among them the fact that we don't very much like leaky roofs.

The design of any age synthesizes the ancient, the traditional and the new, the practical and the fashionable and the innovative.

Now, in artistic design for things like, for instance, the early art for Space Command you see artists like Doug Drexler talking about futurism while evoking mainly the "Space Age" design heritage of the 1950s and 1960s. There are specific reasons for that with regard to Space Command, but it's nonetheless true that when people talk about futurism the examples seem to quickly turn to exercises in nostalgia - looking backward.

This is an awesome Facebook page, BTW: http://www.facebook.com/SpaceAgePropaganda
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Old April 6 2013, 11:46 PM   #98
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

I wish people would stop using "art deco" to describe things which aren't. Nothing much in the original Star Trek is art deco.
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Old April 7 2013, 02:42 AM   #99
aridas sofia
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

I'm a historian trained to search for lessons of the past applicable to the present. And when I look at the precepts of Modernism with its rejection of history as having little to inform the remade world of the 20th century, I am chagrined. And yet, when I look at the future I see the possibility that human existence will change in such fundamental ways that the lessons of the past really won't be applicable. I realize the stories of such people would probably be so foreign to contemporary audiences as to be indecipherable. And yet, THAT'S the future that seems plausible to me. In an attempt to find a middle ground, I imagine there are people like us still around in a post-Singularity world, but I cannot imagine how their lives will be changed. And while such people - mortal, not cybernetically enhanced, not hive minded, etc. - will live lives influenced by the constants of human nature, the world around them will be, I think, largely disconnected from the past.
But that's me and God knows I'll almost certainly be wrong. Prognosticators don't generally have great batting averages.
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Old April 7 2013, 03:15 AM   #100
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

Maurice wrote: View Post
Gary7 wrote: View Post
But as for the uniforms and interiors, TOS doesn't look very futuristic to me at all. It looks seriously dated. Even the iconic equipment employed, the phaser, communicator, and tricorder, all look like Art Deco relics now.
I wish people would stop using "art deco" to describe things which aren't. Nothing much in the original Star Trek is art deco.
^^ This.

Art Deco is a term coined in the 1960s and retroactively applied to a style of architecture, interior and product design, and graphic design popular in the late 1920s and 1930s. The spaceships and hardware in Universal's Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers serials look like Art Deco relics, because they are.

IMO, the most Art Deco-looking thing in Trek TOS is the original Klingon battle cruiser.
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Old April 7 2013, 03:25 AM   #101
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

The Klingon ship has more in common with Streamline Moderne than Deco, but it's really neither. There's some Googie architecture in some of the matte paintings.
Here's a great site for seeing actual Deco and Moderne.
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Old April 7 2013, 03:29 AM   #102
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
^This.

If one wishes to make something look "futuristic", why would one endeavor to make it look "contemporary"?
Logical.

The contemporary design influence was the problem with TNG's sets; the earth tones, leather seats and structures out of a 1980s Sears catalog were not in keeping with the "futuristic" design sense established in TOS, and carried over to the TOS movies.

I believe the perception problem for some in this thread is confusing the post 2001 utilitarian design (or Star Wars' oft-mentioned "lived in" look) with being "futuristic" when the two design senses are not necessarily represented by the other. Take the Spindrift from Irwin Allen's Land of the Giants--the design is not at all born of the ultilitarian school of thought responsible for 2001, but it had an organic, "futuristic" look (for its time) that does not appear to be the most plausible in a strict, science fiction sense.

For this--and many reasons, the TOS interiors still play as being from another time, where the technical influences of today fell out fashion by the time of TOS (in other words, no bulky International Space Station-like structures).
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Old April 7 2013, 04:17 AM   #103
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

Maurice wrote: View Post
The Klingon ship has more in common with Streamline Moderne than Deco, but it's really neither. There's some Googie architecture in some of the matte paintings.
Here's a great site for seeing actual Deco and Moderne.
The Streamline Moderne or Art Moderne style is generally considered a later phase of Art Deco, the earlier phase being Zigzag Moderne.

The Klingon battlecruiser had elements of both styles in surface treatment if not in overall form.

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Old April 7 2013, 04:29 AM   #104
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

scotpens wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
The Klingon ship has more in common with Streamline Moderne than Deco, but it's really neither. There's some Googie architecture in some of the matte paintings.
Here's a great site for seeing actual Deco and Moderne.
The Streamline Moderne or Art Moderne style is generally considered a later phase of Art Deco, the earlier phase being Zigzag Moderne.

The Klingon battlecruiser had elements of both styles in surface treatment if not in overall form.
This is fascinating. I never thought of the Klingon ship in these terms, but there it is.

The 1920s and 1930s designs were meant to convey beauty, luxury, and sunny optimism, but Matt Jeffries smuggled them into a sinister, menacing alien ship. Neat!
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Old April 7 2013, 06:46 AM   #105
Gary7
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Re: Does TOS Still Look Futuristic to You?

Maurice wrote: View Post
I wish people would stop using "art deco" to describe things which aren't. Nothing much in the original Star Trek is art deco.
Of course, I didn't mean it literally, but more figuratively. Art Deco is a fairly abused term, used to apply to a wide range of design motifs that are either fully or partially influenced by the design aesthetics of the 20's and 30's. The phasers and communicators have rather minimalist qualities with various line accents that are similar to the streamline/minimalist motif of the Art Deco period. Remember Dax saying "I love classic twenty third century designs. Black finish, silver highlights." That silver metal center line wrapping around the black body of the communicators certainly echos a minimalist design.
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