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Old June 2 2013, 12:21 PM   #151
Admiral2
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

FreezeC77 wrote: View Post
Yea the whole property thing didn't really make me go 'wow!'. Cloning is against the law so to go public and try to claim a person(which is ridiculous) would be claiming something illegal so that wouldn't work either.
You're not thinking deviously enough.

You're assuming the whole clone has to be claimed as property. That's actually the last thing Dyad would want to do since what's against the law is cloning a whole human being. There is no law against cloning organic tissue or individual body parts for organ replacement, however, which means all that's required is enough tissue to get a good DNA sample, because the tag will be imprinted on DNA throughout the body. All you have to do is kill the clone and harvest the organs. If you need to present the DNA tag in court, all you have to do is present an organ as the source material. A clone is a human being. A heart is just a heart until it's inside somebody.
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Old June 2 2013, 12:38 PM   #152
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

Next season will be set in Washington in part where clones will be pushing through laws about.... Wait: Canada.

Ottawa.

How hard is it push though parliament meaningless laws that look like science fiction gobbledegook?
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Old June 2 2013, 04:26 PM   #153
Mister Fandango
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

Aldo wrote: View Post
I never thought for a second that the blonde annoying neighbor was Allison's monitor. She was so convinced that it was I knew it was a red herring and it was going to be the husband all along.
I don't understand why they even tried to make us think she was. We saw her husband burning the original contents of his safety box while making an ominous phone call about both it and Allison finding out. There was no question as to who her watcher was from the audience's point of view due to that single scene.

I'm extremely disappointed that Helena was killed off (yes I realize that may not be the case, but for now I will assume she is) as she was my favorite Tatiana character besides Sarah.
Why are you assuming she is? They already pretty much told us that these clones have some very special abilities, as evident in Kira's miraculous recovery -- and she's only "half-clone." What's more, every time a clone has suffered an external physical injury that didn't result in death, they've been shown to recover from it pretty quickly even if it didn't register to them. Helena getting stabbed in the gut, for example. Hell, just take a look at Sarah's face in this episode after her final encounter with Helena. By the time she's at the window crying out for Kira, most of the bruising is gone and I could only just barely see the cut on her lip. And that was just in a matter of hours, tops.

I'm curious about why the project was named Leda. Seems an odd choice, as all I remember of Leda from mythology is that she was raped by Zeus on the same night she had sex with a king, and no one knew which of her children (one of whom was named Helen, coincidentally) were mortal or divine. I'm thinking that has to play into the story somehow.
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Old June 2 2013, 06:27 PM   #154
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

^I think Helena is dead. Sarah doesn't strike me as the type of person not to check the body.
Admiral2 wrote: View Post
FreezeC77 wrote: View Post
Yea the whole property thing didn't really make me go 'wow!'. Cloning is against the law so to go public and try to claim a person(which is ridiculous) would be claiming something illegal so that wouldn't work either.
You're not thinking deviously enough.

You're assuming the whole clone has to be claimed as property. That's actually the last thing Dyad would want to do since what's against the law is cloning a whole human being. There is no law against cloning organic tissue or individual body parts for organ replacement, however, which means all that's required is enough tissue to get a good DNA sample, because the tag will be imprinted on DNA throughout the body. All you have to do is kill the clone and harvest the organs. If you need to present the DNA tag in court, all you have to do is present an organ as the source material. A clone is a human being. A heart is just a heart until it's inside somebody.
LOL, whut? So murdering a clone to harvest the organs is legal?
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Old June 2 2013, 07:14 PM   #155
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
I'm curious about why the project was named Leda. Seems an odd choice, as all I remember of Leda from mythology is that she was raped by Zeus on the same night she had sex with a king, and no one knew which of her children (one of whom was named Helen, coincidentally) were mortal or divine. I'm thinking that has to play into the story somehow.
Helen was considered the most beautiful woman in the world. I'm guessing Project LEDA wasn't just trying to make a clone, they were trying to make the most "beautiful" woman possible, by neolutionist standards. I imagine they're more interested in wonderful genes than a wonderful face.
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Old June 2 2013, 10:17 PM   #156
Admiral2
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

sojourner wrote: View Post
^I think Helena is dead. Sarah doesn't strike me as the type of person not to check the body.
Admiral2 wrote: View Post
FreezeC77 wrote: View Post
Yea the whole property thing didn't really make me go 'wow!'. Cloning is against the law so to go public and try to claim a person(which is ridiculous) would be claiming something illegal so that wouldn't work either.
You're not thinking deviously enough.

You're assuming the whole clone has to be claimed as property. That's actually the last thing Dyad would want to do since what's against the law is cloning a whole human being. There is no law against cloning organic tissue or individual body parts for organ replacement, however, which means all that's required is enough tissue to get a good DNA sample, because the tag will be imprinted on DNA throughout the body. All you have to do is kill the clone and harvest the organs. If you need to present the DNA tag in court, all you have to do is present an organ as the source material. A clone is a human being. A heart is just a heart until it's inside somebody.
LOL, whut? So murdering a clone to harvest the organs is legal?
No, wise-ass, which was my point. Dr. Leekie has already demonstrated he and his cohorts are willing to break the law, including commit murder, to achieve their goals, and the question was how do you enforce the patent embedded in the clones DNA without presenting the clones in court. I'm saying you don't. You kill the clones, harvest the organs, destroy the carcass with acid and then say the patent is embedded to protect the proprietary process that created the organs, without saying that creating human clones was part of that process.
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Old June 2 2013, 10:59 PM   #157
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

Unfortunately, the clones are already out there.
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Old June 3 2013, 02:43 AM   #158
Morpheus 02
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

When was cloning banned? If the clones were created BEFORE the law was passed, then the scientists might have SOME legal basis for making them property....this being a long term project, they are anticipating future changes in legislation.
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Old June 3 2013, 02:49 AM   #159
Guy Gardener
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

From wikipedia

United States [edit]

In 1998, 2001, 2004 and 2007, the United States House of Representatives voted whether to ban all human cloning, both reproductive and therapeutic. Each time, divisions in the Senate over therapeutic cloning prevented either competing proposal (a ban on both forms or reproductive cloning only) from passing. On March 10, 2010 a bill (HR 4808) was introduced with a section banning federal funding for human cloning.[16] Such a law, if passed, would not prevent research from occurring in private institutions (such as universities) that have both private and federal funding. There are currently no federal laws in the United States which ban cloning completely, and any such laws would raise difficult Constitutional questions similar to the issues raised by abortion. Thirteen American states (Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Iowa, Indiana, Massachusetts, Maryland, Michigan, North Dakota, New Jersey, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Virginia) ban reproductive cloning and three states (Arizona, Maryland, Missouri) prohibit use of public funds for such activities.[17]
and



Canada [edit]

Canadian law prohibits the following: cloning humans, cloning stem cells, growing human embryos for research purposes, sex selection, and buying or selling of embryos, sperm, eggs or other human reproductive material. It also bans making changes to human DNA that would pass from one generation to the next, including use of animal DNA in humans. Surrogate mothers are legally allowed, as is donation of sperm or eggs for reproductive purposes. Human embryos and stem cells are also permitted to be donated for research.
There have been consistent calls in Canada to ban human reproductive cloning since the 1993 Report of the Royal Commission on New Reproductive Technologies. Polls have indicated that an overwhelming majority of Canadians oppose human reproductive cloning, though the regulation of human cloning continues to be a significant national and international policy issue. The notion of "human dignity" is commonly used to justify cloning laws. The basis for this justification is that reproductive human cloning necessarily infringes notions of human dignity.[24][25][26][27]
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Old June 3 2013, 02:49 AM   #160
Mister Fandango
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

Nevermind.
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Old June 3 2013, 03:45 AM   #161
Guy Gardener
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

My real problem is that when someone says "20 years ago" is that I always just assume that they're talking about 1972.

I am so fricking old.
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Old June 3 2013, 12:38 PM   #162
Morpheus 02
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
My real problem is that when someone says "20 years ago" is that I always just assume that they're talking about 1972.

I am so fricking old.

My problem too

And thanks for the info...so what they did was technically legal....but they were anticipating some legal restrictions, so they left their DNA message for the future....very clever writing.

Now, I haven't seen all the episodes... but do the DNA variations actually change much of the clone (i.e. hair color, eye color, sexual orientation - which is supposed to be something you're born with)?
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Old June 3 2013, 01:30 PM   #163
Guy Gardener
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

I think they have identical DNA except for the "Titledeed" sewn in. Of course, after they were created equally, the experimenting done by these mad scientists, means that what is afflicted on each cone to satisfy whatever ongoing experiment is different and although might rot and break down their dna, it's unlikely to "change" their specific DNA into different healthy dna.

Giving all the clones different diseases/poisons is the only reason that you would need identiacal people as (lab)cows, by examining how the same person dies in a different 100 ways.

Coughing blood is a vague symptom.
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Old June 3 2013, 04:54 PM   #164
Admiral2
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

sojourner wrote: View Post
Unfortunately, the clones are already out there.
So?

Kidnap one off the street and it's a missing person case until a body is found. Destroy the body and she's not even legally deceased until she's been missing seven years (United States). The only way a bystander would immediately know something serious is going on is if they knew there was more than one clone. And if that person is a monitor, and the one considered most likely to file that missing person report...

Like i said, you're not thinking deviously enough.
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Old June 3 2013, 05:54 PM   #165
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Re: Orphan Black kept my Attention.

Maybe so, but it seems a silly way to run a production line. If the intended purpose was just to harvest organs I doubt the clones would have been released into society in the first place. More likely you'd have a setup like The Island.
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