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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old May 24 2013, 03:00 AM   #1
Vanyel
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Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

Would the Federation have put into place a contingency plan to use the Omega Molecule in and around Cardassian space? A last ditch effort to contain the Dominion to Cardassia. Or instead of mining the Federation side of the wormhole have an unmanned ship fly through the wormhole and detonate a few Omega molecules on the Dominion end.

The damage done to subspace would make the wormhole useless for either the Dominion or the Federation since warp drive would no longer work for light years around the Dominion side. Make a big enough explosion and it would take the Dominion years, decades, a century or more to get through the damaged area to reach the Wormhole.

Doing the same thing around Cardassia Prime, and any other worlds the Dominion is using would also basically stop the Dominion and Cardassian fleets. It would cut them off from the rest of the AQ. It would end the war.

It would be, to say the least, a "Scorched Earth" policy. But would it work?

For argument's sake, let's agree that the Federation can create and for a minute or two, keep stable an Omega Molecule.
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Old May 24 2013, 03:46 AM   #2
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

I wonder what would happen if you detonated an Omega Bomb in the middle of the wormhole?
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Old May 24 2013, 08:53 PM   #3
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

Well the episode states that a detonation of an unstable molecule makes a large area of space unable to sustain a stable warp field. So ceding your point of the Federation being able to create one, use in the manner you describe could bring the war to a stalemate. Though this really seems something like Section 31 would do.

Well if the Federation's going to break out superweapons, why not dust off the plans for the Genesis device? So what if it's not stable, that's still a hell of a weapon. Wipe out entire enemy planets and I'm sure detonating one among their fleets won't be healthy either.
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Old May 24 2013, 09:28 PM   #4
Vanyel
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

R. Star wrote: View Post
Well the episode states that a detonation of an unstable molecule makes a large area of space unable to sustain a stable warp field. So ceding your point of the Federation being able to create one, use in the manner you describe could bring the war to a stalemate. Though this really seems something like Section 31 would do.

Well if the Federation's going to break out superweapons, why not dust off the plans for the Genesis device? So what if it's not stable, that's still a hell of a weapon. Wipe out entire enemy planets and I'm sure detonating one among their fleets won't be healthy either.
I'm not sure if it would be a stalemate. Keeping the Dominion from using their end of the worm hole would prevent any new Jem'Hadar from coming through. Also using it around Cardassian and Dominion fleets and planets would bring them to a halt. The Federation and Klingons would only need to map the areas effected and go around them.
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Old May 25 2013, 05:57 AM   #5
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

Detonating an omega molecule would be a severe overreaction, wouldn't it?

Sure, it would keep enemy fleets from warping around in that area, but long after the war is "over", no one can go warping around in those areas. That's not a good weapon of war - that's a weapon against civilization! It'd be like deploying a weapon that would render ocean or air travel impossible.

As a matter of practicality, though, how would the omega molecule be used? I don't recall much about it, but can it be transported? It would no good to "build" it on Earth, only for it to explode in transit. Better to create it at the site of use, then - but how long does it take to synthesize one of these monsters? Days, or years?
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Old May 25 2013, 06:12 AM   #6
Vanyel
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

Pavonis wrote: View Post
As a matter of practicality, though, how would the omega molecule be used? I don't recall much about it, but can it be transported? It would no good to "build" it on Earth, only for it to explode in transit. Better to create it at the site of use, then - but how long does it take to synthesize one of these monsters? Days, or years?
Vanyel wrote: View Post
For argument's sake, let's agree that the Federation can create and for a minute or two, keep stable an Omega Molecule.
The hypothetical tactic I propose allows for the Federation being able to create an Omega molecule.
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Old May 25 2013, 06:33 AM   #7
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

OK, they could do it (though if you're ignoring one of the fundamental properties of the omega molecule, why not just ignore all the problematic properties of the omega molecule?). So the Federation has scorched an entire volume of space (permanently) to stop a fleet from traversing it temporarily. The problem - the war - is not solved, it's just slowed down. I imagine the Dominion would just send ships through the disruption at slower-than-light speeds. They've demonstrated that they are a patient civilization. They wouldn't call off a war just because the trip to the fighting would be too slow!

Alternatively, the enemy fleet either goes around the area, in which case you've just bought some time by creating a permanent disruption in traffic, and given them a reason to do the same to your side. Send a changeling to Earth and have them detonate an omega molecule at the heart of the Federation. You've escalated the war.

Or the enemy just finds another way through the disruption. For instance, would a slipstream drive be stopped by an omega molecule's disruption? Or would a transwarp tunnel be affected?

Anyway, it's an over-reaction. It's boiling away the oceans to keep the enemy navy from reaching your shores, and destroying the atmosphere to keep the enemy bombers from flying over your cities. Why do it?
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Old May 25 2013, 01:54 PM   #8
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

After sacrifice of angels the wormhole was already blocked for Dominion reinforcements. With the omega molecule I thought it was something that would be dangerous to move so unless they could be created and detonated right in cardassian space they would be as much of a danger to the federation.
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Old May 25 2013, 10:33 PM   #9
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

The Dominion may not call off the war, but it would give Starfleet and the Klingons time to build more ships, train more men, study what Dominion tech they have and watch the Dominion crawls through space to the fight.

Where ever the Dominion goes Starfleet and the Klingons would be there waiting. Strategically placed ships would be able to respond to a Dominion fleets weeks before the fleet got to the exit point they chose. As a tactic, when a Dominion fleet get's near the edge of the distortion, Warp speed strafing runs could be conducted. Firing torpedoes at the Dominion fleet as it neared the edge of the effected space. Torpedoes moving at high sub light speeds should prove to be a problem to the ships inside the effected area.

I will grant that it would be a major escalation in the war. But the Federation and Klingons were losing. As was mentioned before, if you're losing to an enemy that think your kind of life forms (solids) are inferior and the lives of these inferiors are no more than an infestation that should be wiped out; wouldn't dusting off everything you know you can do be the only choice. Genesis, a Soliton wave, biogenic weapons, the Omegas Molecule shouldn't all those at least be on the table? Hell maybe even take that captured Jem'Hadar ship and if possible, find the nearest Borg ship and lead it to Cardassia. Ask Kevin Uxbridge if he'd just send the Dominion fleets and founders back to their side of the Wormhole should be a plan too. Not kill them, just send them back.

Okay, that was a rant. My apologies. But if it slows down your enemy, and you can map the effected areas so you can still warp around space, wouldn't it be in your best interest to do so?
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Old May 26 2013, 05:17 AM   #10
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

R. Star wrote: View Post
So what if it's not stable, that's still a hell of a weapon. Wipe out entire enemy planets and I'm sure detonating one among their fleets won't be healthy either.
Do we really know for sure its not stable? I mean, I know the whole exchange between Saavik and David in TSFS, but isn't it possible, and maybe just as, or more likely that the improper detonation of the Genesis device was to blame for the instability. Instead of a dead rock in space, you've got a nebula and a lightly manned star ship for it to "planetize".

Anyway, sorry for the off-topicness.
In universe, I actually find the Genesis Torpedo Contingency more likely than the Omega Molecule Contingency as a 31 plot. Mainly because of the difficulties with containment.
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Old May 26 2013, 06:24 AM   #11
Vanyel
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

Paulcpick wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
So what if it's not stable, that's still a hell of a weapon. Wipe out entire enemy planets and I'm sure detonating one among their fleets won't be healthy either.
Do we really know for sure its not stable? I mean, I know the whole exchange between Saavik and David in TSFS, but isn't it possible, and maybe just as, or more likely that the improper detonation of the Genesis device was to blame for the instability. Instead of a dead rock in space, you've got a nebula and a lightly manned star ship for it to "planetize".

Anyway, sorry for the off-topicness.
In universe, I actually find the Genesis Torpedo Contingency more likely than the Omega Molecule Contingency as a 31 plot. Mainly because of the difficulties with containment.
David said the only way he could make the matrix stable was by protomatter. Maybe there was another way, but it would take a lot to discover it, especially if Starfleet mothballed the project and stopped all research.
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Old May 26 2013, 04:03 PM   #12
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Anyway, it's an over-reaction. It's boiling away the oceans to keep the enemy navy from reaching your shores, and destroying the atmosphere to keep the enemy bombers from flying over your cities. Why do it?
Because if the enemy does reach your shores, it will kill half your people and enslave the rest. And you have little chance of avoiding this outcome by other means.
And it's boiling away a part of the ocean/atmosphere you rarely use.
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Old May 26 2013, 04:14 PM   #13
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

It would be the equivalent of EMPing our entire planet. By that point civilizations will depend on other planets. Hell, Qo'Nos had to come to the Feds with hat in hand when they lost access to a moon. And what about any neutral warp-faring populations in the 'dead zone'?

Also, any thoughts about the Dominon holding back their own super-weapons goes out the window. I know it seems they didn't play by any rules, but I have to think with all the hand-wringing over the Changeling Virus, that they played by a few at least.
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Old May 26 2013, 04:25 PM   #14
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

The dominion already has no inhibitions in using WMDs or biological weapons.

Consider how it wanted to destroy bajor's sun - killing billions and effectively eradicating the bajoran species. Or DS9 The quickening.
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Old May 26 2013, 06:09 PM   #15
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Re: Dominion War Contingency Plan: The Omega Molecule.

Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Anyway, it's an over-reaction. It's boiling away the oceans to keep the enemy navy from reaching your shores, and destroying the atmosphere to keep the enemy bombers from flying over your cities. Why do it?
Because if the enemy does reach your shores, it will kill half your people and enslave the rest. And you have little chance of avoiding this outcome by other means.
And it's boiling away a part of the ocean/atmosphere you rarely use.
Consider that it would do no good to destroy subspace around enemy planets like Cardassia Prime or on the GQ side of the wormhole. The enemy will just bypass the disruption. There's no way to disrupt a large enough volume of space to prevent the enemy from reaching you, unless you deploy Omega in your own star system. It would be the only effective way to use it, but it's permanent. It's exactly like a scorched earth policy, but there's so rebuilding afterwards. You're destroying your civilization to spite the enemy.

Maybe if the United Earth leadership had been Russians, they might have considered it. It worked against Napoleon.
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