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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 1 2013, 03:08 PM   #31
Therin of Andor
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
I just don't agree with the common opinion on this board that nuTrek has to have as little connection to Star Trek as possible because they think that the general audience is too stupid to understand some references.
As always it will be a delicate balance.

And avid ST fans make up less than 10% of the audience of a Star Trek movie. Less than 2% buy the tie-in books and comics.
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Old April 1 2013, 03:33 PM   #32
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

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Do you really want it to just die and there be no more "Star Trek"? It looked pretty ragged after "Nemesis" and "These Are the Voyages".
Of course not, and I think that Bad Robot did a decent job with the last movie. And from what I saw in the trailes for the next one, it's gonna be spectacular.

I just don't agree with the common opinion on this board that nuTrek has to have as little connection to Star Trek as possible because they think that the general audience is too stupid to understand some references. And even if Joe Average doesn't get every reference, so what? I'm sure there are lots of references in other franchises that I don't get, but that doesn't spoil my enjoyment in any way.

Gaining a new audience is important and it helps the franchise to survive, but if we are going to reduce Star Trek to the lowest common denominator then it will become meaningless.
It's "the common opinion on this board" that nuTrek must have "as little connection to Star Trek as possible"? Really? Literally?

Just who was the Easter egg of tribbles on Delta Vega aimed at, anyway?
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Old April 1 2013, 04:02 PM   #33
Oso Blanco
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

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Just who was the Easter egg of tribbles on Delta Vega aimed at, anyway?
Now THAT was completely pointless, as well as naming that planet Delta Vega in the first place.
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Old April 1 2013, 04:15 PM   #34
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

Trek should have as little back story as possible, in order to avoid boring people's asses to tears.
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Old April 1 2013, 04:19 PM   #35
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

I loved all the references to Trek lore in STXI. It was brilliantly done - there for the fans to pick up on, but not done in a way that befuddled newbies.
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Old April 1 2013, 04:53 PM   #36
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Do you really want it to just die and there be no more "Star Trek"? It looked pretty ragged after "Nemesis" and "These Are the Voyages".
Of course not, and I think that Bad Robot did a decent job with the last movie. And from what I saw in the trailes for the next one, it's gonna be spectacular.

I just don't agree with the common opinion on this board that nuTrek has to have as little connection to Star Trek as possible because they think that the general audience is too stupid to understand some references. And even if Joe Average doesn't get every reference, so what? I'm sure there are lots of references in other franchises that I don't get, but that doesn't spoil my enjoyment in any way.

Gaining a new audience is important and it helps the franchise to survive, but if we are going to reduce Star Trek to the lowest common denominator then it will become meaningless.
To whom? Certainly not the new arrival to Trek. And let's face it, the vast bulk of the long-time fans will watch the new stuff anyway.

The tribble, Delta Vega, the reference to Adm. Archer's beagle, along with a number of other nods and winks to prior Trek, were fine. They didn't confuse the story in any way to someone for whom the 09 movie was the first Trek they'd ever watched and they were familiar to any "old-timer". But they were completely superfluous and I would not have missed any one of them if they'd been edited from the final cut of the film.

Starship Enterprise? Check.
Kirk, Spock and co. are there? Check.
Starfleet? Check.

That's all the "backstory" anyone needs for it to be Star Trek. Anything else should be in service of the story being told and NOT in service of "connecting to the rest of the franchise". If it happens to do so, fine. If not, no big deal.

It's entertainment. So let it be entertaining. If it is anything more, that's a bonus. It's not a requirement.
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Old April 1 2013, 09:22 PM   #37
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

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I'm glad that didn't happen, because it would have been fanwankingly stupid. None of the casual moviegoing audience would have known that it was Khan's ship (and if they did, they probably wouldn't have cared)
I don't see the problem there. None of the casual moviegoing audience knew who that guy in the final scene of The Avengers was, so what? By that logic you would have to drop all Star Trek references whatsoever and make it a standalone movie with no backstory at all. But that wouldn't be Star Trek, would it?
It has nothing to do with it being a Star Trek reference. It has to do with the audience seeing some old ship shaped like a submarine with some prongs at the end, and are supposed to make some kind of connection to it. Now if the scene shifted to the inside of the ship and to one of the cryobeds, where a CGI Khan could be seen, that might be different. But again, all that would mean is that it's a lead up to the next movie, and having it simply be TWOK Mk. 2 isn't necessary.
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Old April 1 2013, 09:25 PM   #38
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

TOS wasn't a serial. Each episode stood alone. Spock had the most developed backstory, Kirk kind of had one, but the other characters had no backstories at all. We knew hardly anything about McCoy, Scotty, or the rest. Yet everything was fine.

The TOS movies had a sort of trilogy in TWOK, TSFS, and TVH but it wasn't a forced trilogy (as in one movie foreshadowed the next, or seeing all of them is required to make sense of things).

Given what precious little we're going to see of these characters right now (one more movie and that may be it), I'd really like to see the third movie be a totally independent story with fully bloomed characters comfortable in their duties and already earning a reputation as a special crew doing special things.

That said, by title alone, "Into Darkness" portends an ending that may require the loose ends to be tied up in the next movie.

In any case, I'll take what comes and hope to enjoy it.
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Old April 1 2013, 10:17 PM   #39
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

We always sit though the credits anyway so if they wanna tack some tidbit of a clue to the next one onto the end of STID I ain't going to complain. Usually we're the only ones left in the theater by credits end unless the general public knows there is something to see.
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Old April 2 2013, 12:02 AM   #40
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

The Keeper wrote: View Post
We always sit though the credits anyway so if they wanna tack some tidbit of a clue to the next one onto the end of STID I ain't going to complain. Usually we're the only ones left in the theater by credits end unless the general public knows there is something to see.
Exactly. The post-credits "bonus scene" is almost always intended for those who know it's there going into the movie (i.e. the diehard fans). So, once the credits are done, having a obscure shot of the Botany Bay being discovered would be akin to what was seen in Avengers.

Claiming it's the same as the scene at the end of the Dark Knight, however, is wrong. First, that was pre-credits, so everyone saw it. Secondly, EVERYONE knows the Joker is the arch-enemy of Batman, and EVERYONE was expecting it (probably most had no clue who/what the League of Shadows was, actually). You can't make the same comparison with Khan and Kirk.
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Old April 2 2013, 03:11 AM   #41
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Just who was the Easter egg of tribbles on Delta Vega aimed at, anyway?
Now THAT was completely pointless, as well as naming that planet Delta Vega in the first place.
The point was for longtime fans to go "A-ha".
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Old April 2 2013, 03:32 AM   #42
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

Uummm...

Have we already forgotten the 'several' references to TWoK that have already appeared in some of the trailers...?
(and other places)

Hand-to-hand against the glass...
Dr. Carol Marcus...
and
Apparently, some kind of Fancy Torpedo (Genesis???)...
(I'm sure there's a few more that I've forgotten at the moment)

...and all this before the end credits even begin.

Kinda silly to be arguing that past obscure references shouldn't be included at this point, I think.
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Old April 2 2013, 03:43 AM   #43
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Just who was the Easter egg of tribbles on Delta Vega aimed at, anyway?
Now THAT was completely pointless, as well as naming that planet Delta Vega in the first place.
The point was for longtime fans to go "A-ha".
Actually, the reallly longtime fans said "Why is Delta Vega next to Vulcan?"
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Old April 2 2013, 03:51 AM   #44
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
The point was for longtime fans to go "A-ha".
It just scared the living daylights out of me.
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Old April 2 2013, 05:09 AM   #45
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Re: Into Darkness ties to Star Trek XIII?

Clearly, some really long-time Trek fans—who knows how many, but including fans of over forty years, such as me—really don't care if a planet named Delta Vega exists near or next to Vulcan in the nu-timeline.
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