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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old April 3 2013, 04:47 PM   #16
Christopher
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

yenny wrote: View Post
Then CBS should do a Star Trek series. When was it the last time they had a sci-fi series on there network? Me, I don't know. I think it was Lost in Space. But we have google search to see with one was the last.
Of all the US broadcast networks, CBS is the one that's had the lowest percentage of SF/fantasy shows in its history. But currently it does feature one significant SF show, Person of Interest. Other genre shows on the network since 2000 include Wolf Lake, Jericho, Threshold, Ghost Whisperer, Moonlight, Eleventh Hour, Medium, and the short-lived Century City, while other notable CBS genre shows in decades past include the original Twilight Zone and its first revival, My Favorite Martian, The Wild Wild West, The Amazing Spider-Man, Wonder Woman, The Incredible Hulk, Logan's Run, Beauty and the Beast, Airwolf, The Flash, American Gothic, and Now and Again.

But if you mean to ask when CBS last had a show set in outer space, then as far as I can tell, Lost in Space was the last one of those, although 1985's Otherworld took place on an alien world which may have been either a distant planet or a parallel-universe version of Earth, and Logan's Run and Jericho were both in post-apocalyptic futures.
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Old April 3 2013, 06:20 PM   #17
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

^^^
There was a very short-lived spaceship series on CBS in '93 called Space Rangers. It was one of those "blink and you missed it" shows (only six episodes before CBS pulled the plug).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Rangers_(TV_series)

It was somewhat forgettable, but somewhat fun in an oddly Power Ranger-ish sort of way.
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Old April 3 2013, 08:15 PM   #18
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

Those examples are too old to be very useful. TV is changing fast, which may be in Star Trek's favor since broadcast is under extreme pressure to adapt to the future of narrowcasting exemplified by Amazon and Netflix (without having subscription revenues). Cable is also starting to feel the pressure.

The more the industry shifts towards narrowcasting (smaller audiences paying more for nichier content), the better it is for Star Trek which is in a niche (space opera) too small to work on broadcast and even basic cable is questionable anymore.

Premium cable might be able to swing it, but they'd be more likely to follow the Game of Thrones model and adapt some well-regarded novel series vs. going with a brand associated with free TV (not really the image Showtime wants to maintain - brand image being totally separate from the quality of the program itself.)

CBS is the most secure of all the broadcast networks, so they're under the least pressure to swing for the fences. Conversely, being in the more secure position, they might feel more free to experiment with new ways of delivering nichier content, like their collaboration with Amazon to produce Under the Dome (definitely genre, unlike Person of Interest, which is sci fi only under the most generous definition.)
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Old April 3 2013, 09:00 PM   #19
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

Space Rangers 6 episodes kicked collective Star Trek's post TOS's ass IMO. It had character, it had space ships, not the greatest, it had accessable central casting (people like looking at beautiful likable people and things). It had good music - main the by Hans Zimmer, not bad. I really loved it. It was niche and campy and cultish. It was almost a procedural like space Precinct or Academy or what have you, another show I really liked. The aliens were really alien with big heads and it had Alan Brennert writing it. It certainly surprised me so much so that I used to stay awake 'till three o clock in the morning to watch it in repeats. I thought it was a kids show but it had good stories of course.
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Old April 3 2013, 11:30 PM   #20
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

I think a traditional Trek TV show will seem very dated in todays world of smartphones, connected devices, 'google glass' and miniaturised electronics (mini drones etc) unless the producer is very bold and makes some considerable changes to old Trek. A big-budget flashy effects driven action movie can get away with it.. but a weekly TV show I am not sure about...

A good starting point would be to look at 'Prometheus' which was essentially a Trek away mission gone wrong. Some nice gadgets in that.

IMO.
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Old April 4 2013, 08:00 AM   #21
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

I never ever had any problems with the fact that some tech today seams more advanced than Star Trek's. We cannot view Star Trek as our future, but mostly a thing like a future for a parallel universe. Things like the Eugenics Wars and WWIII made another development of tech possible for that universe so it is plausible. If we would have had a Eugenic War and we will have a WWIII (I hope not ...) rest assured that we will have a throw back from a tech point of view, tech will evolve differently.
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Old April 4 2013, 03:19 PM   #22
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

^But the more detached ST gets from a plausible future, the further it drifts from the forward-looking, relevant science fiction it was intended to be, and the more it becomes an exercise in nostalgia and retro sci-fi like the way we see Flash Gordon today. ST is supposed to be about looking forward, not clinging to the past. The meaning should be more important than the trappings. So a wholesale reinvention, updating the concepts and tech while preserving the core characterizations and themes, would be more faithful to its intent than just perpetually clinging to the pulp-era technological trappings of the original.
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Old April 4 2013, 04:30 PM   #23
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

Updating the tech? You make it sound like it's supposed to work. Too much tech gets in the way of drama and character. Simple ia always better and less is always more. The so called future tech of Enterprise will be laughable tomorrow as it is even today. Nothing stays the same and the things of today will probably be gone tomorrow in favor of something we can't possibly concieve of today. To me TOS was the most possible and plausible future of them all. GR's imagination was not less plausible than ours is.
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Old April 4 2013, 08:35 PM   #24
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

Trek is ultimately a fictional universe, and it will always differ from the real one regardless, so sometimes it's a case of moving the goal posts with each new incarnation of it. As far as its tech is concerned, it can be solved with a retro-future approach or just rebooting it with new extrapolations from current-day tech (either way, it'll become outdated soon enough, IMO).
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Old April 4 2013, 10:59 PM   #25
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

xortex wrote: View Post
Updating the tech? You make it sound like it's supposed to work. Too much tech gets in the way of drama and character. Simple ia always better and less is always more. The so called future tech of Enterprise will be laughable tomorrow as it is even today. Nothing stays the same and the things of today will probably be gone tomorrow in favor of something we can't possibly concieve of today. To me TOS was the most possible and plausible future of them all. GR's imagination was not less plausible than ours is.
It's still a show set in the future, you cannot have a future that ignores technological advances that have taken place in the present. Tech that will have advanced in the future you are portraying. Tech getting in the way? That's up to the writers and producers to ensure it doesn't, but it needs to be there and they have to get it right.

Stem cell treatments would have come in handy in the future don't you think? Will trek ignore it forever just because the original show from the 1960s had no idea it would ever exist?
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Old April 5 2013, 12:10 AM   #26
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

Flake wrote: View Post
Stem cell treatments would have come in handy in the future don't you think? Will trek ignore it forever just because the original show from the 1960s had no idea it would ever exist?
I think Trek got around this by having most current diseases already cured with new ones being alien in origin.
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Old April 5 2013, 01:04 AM   #27
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

Flake wrote: View Post
xortex wrote: View Post
Updating the tech? You make it sound like it's supposed to work. Too much tech gets in the way of drama and character. Simple ia always better and less is always more. The so called future tech of Enterprise will be laughable tomorrow as it is even today. Nothing stays the same and the things of today will probably be gone tomorrow in favor of something we can't possibly concieve of today. To me TOS was the most possible and plausible future of them all. GR's imagination was not less plausible than ours is.
It's still a show set in the future, you cannot have a future that ignores technological advances that have taken place in the present. Tech that will have advanced in the future you are portraying. Tech getting in the way? That's up to the writers and producers to ensure it doesn't, but it needs to be there and they have to get it right.

Stem cell treatments would have come in handy in the future don't you think? Will trek ignore it forever just because the original show from the 1960s had no idea it would ever exist?

There is no right way to get future tech. That is the point. the designers should at least endeavor to get it pleasing to the eye and aesthetically right first unless you want the Nostromo or prometheus bridge look which to me is not star Trek, and neither is the apple store warped design that they currently have. God is in the details.
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Old April 5 2013, 07:58 PM   #28
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

I could see a future Star Trek series that revamps the technology to be more in line with modern expectations about the future. A more sentient ship that can make independent decisions (the USS Moya)? Uniforms that look like silk pajamas but can deflect energy weapons? Personal shield generators and heads-up displays for away teams?

If the tech is a continuity break with the past, that can be explained away by saying we're in the Abrams U. I guess keeping Nokia around made all the difference.

As for aesthetics, Apple Store works for me. Maybe they're getting a product placement fee from Apple. Just not grubby, that's all. But they should cool it with actual Nokia-style branding product placement. That's a jarring tone break. I want the anti-capitalist no-religion-too Federation!
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Old April 7 2013, 06:26 AM   #29
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
I could see a future Star Trek series that revamps the technology to be more in line with modern expectations about the future. A more sentient ship that can make independent decisions (the USS Moya)? Uniforms that look like silk pajamas but can deflect energy weapons? Personal shield generators and heads-up displays for away teams?

If the tech is a continuity break with the past, that can be explained away by saying we're in the Abrams U. I guess keeping Nokia around made all the difference.

As for aesthetics, Apple Store works for me. Maybe they're getting a product placement fee from Apple. Just not grubby, that's all. But they should cool it with actual Nokia-style branding product placement. That's a jarring tone break. I want the anti-capitalist no-religion-too Federation!
You can't have that with a series of movies based on TOS, which was somewhat capitalist in nature anyway. What we consider and accept as not being capitalist was what Roddenberry & Co. came up with for TNG. The thing is, if Roddenberry wanted us all to believe that capitalism had gone the way of the dodo, then he should have come up with a workable economic blueprint for the 24th century instead of slightly retconning Star Trek to say that nobody gets paid and replicators provide everything for us seemingly without charge. At least the Star Trek: Phase II episode 'To Serve All My Days' had a great idea of what the Federation economy was like based on what was already established in TOS by Roddenberry, Coon, Fontana & Gerrold.

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Those examples are too old to be very useful. TV is changing fast, which may be in Star Trek's favor since broadcast is under extreme pressure to adapt to the future of narrowcasting exemplified by Amazon and Netflix (without having subscription revenues). Cable is also starting to feel the pressure.

The more the industry shifts towards narrowcasting (smaller audiences paying more for nichier content), the better it is for Star Trek which is in a niche (space opera) too small to work on broadcast and even basic cable is questionable anymore.

Premium cable might be able to swing it, but they'd be more likely to follow the Game of Thrones model and adapt some well-regarded novel series vs. going with a brand associated with free TV (not really the image Showtime wants to maintain - brand image being totally separate from the quality of the program itself.)

CBS is the most secure of all the broadcast networks, so they're under the least pressure to swing for the fences. Conversely, being in the more secure position, they might feel more free to experiment with new ways of delivering nichier content, like their collaboration with Amazon to produce Under the Dome (definitely genre, unlike Person of Interest, which is sci fi only under the most generous definition.)
All I see in what CBS is doing with TV now is greed and attempting to hang on to an older demographic that's dying off, or in the case of reality TV shows, loosing interest as time passes. CBS needs to realize that, contrary to what they and the other networks believe, reality shows and cops shows are getting tiring and boring, and people are tuning out the networks because of this-the real reason ratings are falling, not what they believe and you believe.

If CBS and the other networks embraced things like variety shows and specials, a wider variety of sitcoms and dramas aside from police procedurals, retrospective specials like the I Love Lucy, Carol Burnett & Andy Griffith ones, and sci-fi/fantasy like Star Trek, they'd be getting enough people to watch TV in the large amounts that they claim aren't as big as they used to be. The problem is, they aren't, and Leslie Moonves is a greedy POS who hates science fiction & fantasy, and won't have a sci-fi or fantasy show on his network (yet owns the rights to Star Trek. )

Speaking of Star Trek, Paramount and Viacom should read the riot act to CBS Corporation/CBS Studios/CBS/The CW and make it clear that if they don't do something with the franchise, legal action and something else will be undertaken to force them to make a Star Trek TV show, or to get them to drop the franchise and let Paramount Pictures get it back in order to make a TV show by itself as Paramount TV. If CBS can revive Hawaii Five-O and remake Elementary (a remake which most people didn't ask for and which many are saying is inferior to the original British show Sherlock), then they can put a Star Trek show back on the air. The existence of fan shows like Starship Exeter, Phase II, Intrepid, Hidden Frontier and Star Trek Aurora shows that there still is a wide audience for Star Trek filmed as it used to be; if these shows can do what they do with donated funds, materials and labor, then CBS Corporation/CBS Studios/CBS/The CW can make a show with paid-for funds, materials, and labor just as it used to be in the past. All that's required is that they start to look past their balance sheets and start acting as the artistic concern that they say they are.

Last edited by Shaka Zulu; April 7 2013 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Spelling correction
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Old April 7 2013, 06:53 AM   #30
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Re: Paramount's Brad Grey Wants to Build a TV Studio

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
I could see a future Star Trek series that revamps the technology to be more in line with modern expectations about the future. A more sentient ship that can make independent decisions (the USS Moya)? Uniforms that look like silk pajamas but can deflect energy weapons? Personal shield generators and heads-up displays for away teams?
The recent Canadian SF series Continuum had some of the best technological futurism I've ever seen on TV. The heroine has a smart uniform with all sorts of functions built into the fabric -- computer power and memory, color changing, animated graphics, a taser, etc. (Even invisibility, which doesn't make sense since it makes her bare head invisible too.) Plus she has contact-lens implants that project a heads-up display in her field of view and apparently include sensors and computing capability of their own. And this is just 65 years in the future. It makes ST's version of technology 250 or 350 years from now seem positively quaint.


If the tech is a continuity break with the past, that can be explained away by saying we're in the Abrams U.
Not really, because that only branched off from the Prime reality in 2233. There are a lot of assumptions about earlier events that are still part of the Abramsverse and going to be rendered obsolete in time. We've already gone past the Eugenics Wars, there's no manned Earth-Saturn probe or interplanetary sleeper ships on the horizon, and it's only a few decades before WWIII (hopefully) doesn't happen as described. Sooner or later, if Trek is to avoid being just an exercise in nostalgia, it'll have to break from all its prior continuity and reinvent itself from the ground up. Keep the characters and their relationships, keep the values and ideals, keep the best ideas but remix them, but start the continuity fresh and weave in ideas that are as cutting-edge by today's standards as TOS was by 1960s standards.


As for aesthetics, Apple Store works for me. Maybe they're getting a product placement fee from Apple.
That doesn't make sense, because there's no actual Apple logo, just an aesthetic that broadly resembles that of their stores.


But they should cool it with actual Nokia-style branding product placement. That's a jarring tone break.
Unfortunately it's impossible to make a big-budget blockbuster movie these days without the funding that product placement brings. And as product placements go, Nokia wasn't a bad choice. They're a telecommunications company, something that will continue to be relevant in the future; and they're a corporation whose origins stretch back to 1865, nearly a century and a half, so it's not out of the question that they could still be around in 200-plus years. I suppose you could say the same about the Budweiser placement in Uhura's drink order; that brand has existed since 1876.
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