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Old March 29 2013, 11:50 PM   #16
R. Star
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

It would be the same if I threw my European heritage in everyone's face at every moment by playing the bagpipes, running with the bulls and drinking vodka until I threw up.

That's the same cliche nonsense they did with Chakotay's "Indian" heritage.
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Old March 30 2013, 12:14 AM   #17
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

R. Star wrote: View Post
It would be the same if I threw my European heritage in everyone's face at every moment by playing the bagpipes, running with the bulls and drinking vodka until I threw up.

That's the same cliche nonsense they did with Chakotay's "Indian" heritage.
Well, to be fair, they did stay away from the Drunken Indian stereotype.

However, in Pathways, Jeri Taylor had Chakotay as a teetotaler from a dry planet. Because, you know, those Indians can't be trusted with their liquor, so they gave it up completely.
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Old March 30 2013, 12:31 AM   #18
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

teya wrote: View Post
Because, you know, those Indians can't be trusted with their liquor, so they gave it up completely.
Yeah, firewater and fireboxes don't mix.
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Old March 30 2013, 12:33 AM   #19
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

Synthol isn't alcohol. No one really knows what that means, but technically every one who uses a replicator from a replimat or controlled by an authority probably can't replicate Alcohol. I'm assume that in a house on Earth that the parents will tell their kids to crack the programming and turn off the parentinglimitaions on thier "private" replicators so that family can enjoy chocolate and cocaine.

Seriously, you need command rank permission to replicate REAL Chocolate.

TROI: Transfer the letters from my mother to the viewscreen. And, computer, I would like a real chocolate sundae.
COMPUTER: Define real in context, please.
TROI: Real. Not one of your perfectly synthesised, ingeniously enhanced imitations. I would like real chocolate ice cream, real whipped cream
COMPUTER: This unit is programmed to provide sources of acceptable nutritional value. Your request does not fall within current guidelines. Please indicate whether you wish to override the specified programme?
How I remember events is far more colourful than whatever really actually happened.

Although, when the Fuxrish were trying to build a stil in their cargobay of a home, the Fire suppression forcefields tackled it quickly and saved the ship from certain disaster.

I wonder what the jail time is for changing the permissions on a (state owned, they're all communists remember) replicator is?

Chakotay says that he is a vegetarian.

Of course Riker doesn't think of himself as anything but technically a vegetarian, as all his meat is resequenced biomass that he knows was never alive... Although it might have once been human poop?

Maybe a vegetarian in the 24th century is someone who doesn't eat the illusion of meat out of a replicator as well as actual meat?
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Old March 30 2013, 02:50 AM   #20
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Of course Riker doesn't think of himself as anything but technically a vegetarian, as all his meat is resequenced biomass that he knows was never alive... Although it might have once been human poop?
That explains his shit-eating grin.
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Old March 30 2013, 02:58 AM   #21
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

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Old March 31 2013, 04:25 AM   #22
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

free2131 wrote: View Post
WesleysDisciple wrote: View Post
Anyone Else Appreciate Chakotay's ethnic/spiritual aspects.

his vision quest's his legends, etc.
I would assume that actual Native Americans feel the same way about that as African Americans would feel about showing Geordie replicating fried chicken and watermelon and then calling it the "food of his ancestors".

Stereotypes of any kind are bad, but especially if they are not based in much fact.
Honest question from a confused Western Canadian: Do Caucasian Americans not eat fried chicken or watermelon? Personally I love those foods, and as recently as 1923 my family was from Sweden.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Peyotee was criminalized in the '40s, and then legalized in 1976 for religious purposes only. So, unless I'm reading my google search wrong which is backed up by a hazy memory from some stupid movie... It's all "tribes" who are allowed to start a prayer circle, and they can legally invite any non-first nation they want into the circle. From the movie I recall that some white guy was encouraged to make a donation to the church before the prayer circle started, which was a clever ruse to get around the DEA and the IRS.

Teya, you might not want to watch the final episodes Battlestar Galactica... Or maybe you would? They level the playing field, affirming that no one on Earth from it's centre to fartherest corners could "speak" until Giaus Balter started swinging his dick around with the native aboriginal girls and Starbuck declared her poonanny open season for any caveman brave enough to by ticket.

But then the legend/myth of astronauts gods is old.

Hell, there's even a 70s episode of Scoobie doo were an ancient Astronaut is haunting an Incan Zigerat... But don't be afraid, becuase that turned out not to be a real Ghost.
OMG, is THAT how nuBSG ends? Sounds like the TV series of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy did a much better job...

R. Star wrote: View Post
It would be the same if I threw my European heritage in everyone's face at every moment by playing the bagpipes, running with the bulls and drinking vodka until I threw up.

That's the same cliche nonsense they did with Chakotay's "Indian" heritage.
Some of us like bagpipe music!
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Old March 31 2013, 04:42 AM   #23
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Honest question from a confused Western Canadian: Do Caucasian Americans not eat fried chicken or watermelon? Personally I love those foods, and as recently as 1923 my family was from Sweden.
Sure they do. But in early 20th century American film especially (and perhaps earlier), and "ethnic jokes", African-Americans expressing love for fried chicken, watermelon, cornbread, and chitlin's (don't ask) were frequently topics played for laughs. One of the Our Gang comedies (short subjects with child actors) from the late 20s or early 30s, had Stymie, a little bald Black boy wearing a derby (given to him by Stan Laurel), rubbing what he thought was a magic lamp and wishing for a watermelon.

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Old March 31 2013, 05:28 AM   #24
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
It would be the same if I threw my European heritage in everyone's face at every moment by playing the bagpipes, running with the bulls and drinking vodka until I threw up.

That's the same cliche nonsense they did with Chakotay's "Indian" heritage.
Some of us like bagpipe music!
And some of us like peyote.

Oh wait no, I don't actually like peyote, but I know rather a lot of people who do who look like hippies. They wander about in all weather in bare and filthy feet and drape themselves in washed out, once colorful garb. There's a lot of mumbling. But I know a lot of intelligent activist hippies who would get pretty pissy if I cracked peyote jokes whenever I talked to them even though the peyote partakers are damn proud of their peyote partaking. God it's hilarious listening to them. One girl likes to tell me that by taking peyote she is changing the world for the better because she is having an impact spiritually on all those around her. Which I guess isn't much different than Chak's hallucinogenic machine since he thinks it improves his perspective which would have a follow on effect with everyone he interacts with.
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Old March 31 2013, 07:15 AM   #25
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
It would be the same if I threw my European heritage in everyone's face at every moment by playing the bagpipes, running with the bulls and drinking vodka until I threw up.

That's the same cliche nonsense they did with Chakotay's "Indian" heritage.
Some of us like bagpipe music!
I wasn't bashing bagpipe music. If it floats your boat, go for it. Please don't play it loud around me though! The point I was getting at was they never specified what tribe or ethnicity Chakotay was. They just applied every applicable Indian cliche to him, which really did a disservice to all the Native Americans. There were times he seemed South American, other times like he was from the Plains Tribes, and other times they just didn't even pretend to try and care.

That would be like me celebrating my European heritage by playing the bagpipes even though my family was from Germany. Why not, it's a European cliche isn't it? Just like running with the bulls in Spain and drinking Vodka until you throw up in Russia. I'm European and that's part of my culture. Yes, that does sound stupid. So was Voyager's treatment of Chakotay.
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Old April 1 2013, 02:43 AM   #26
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

In keeping with promoting Star Trek's vision of a radical egalitarian future, I would have appreciated having a character like Chakotay from an oppressed culture... if they had actually bothered to have him be from an oppressed culture. Having him be from the Magic Space Indians does not count. That just continues to perpetuate the invisibility and oppression of Native Americans.
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Old April 1 2013, 02:54 AM   #27
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

America was THE target in WWIII.

Are sure that there are any left by 2370?

RIKER: Makes sense. Most of the major cities have been destroyed. There are few governments left. Six hundred million dead. No resistance.
Then Colonel Green built death camps all over the world to remove any one with radioactive genetic damage from the gene pool to preserve the integrity of the species.

Which probably doubled or tripled the body count, if he's also extracting any with a regular congenital diseases like MS, cancer or Asthma.

Space Indian's might have been the only Indians left.
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Old April 1 2013, 03:15 AM   #28
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

If anyone cares to hear my two cents:

.. I thought Chakotays ethnic rants were pretty tame.... well tame when you compare it to the times they let Avery Brooks loose with a pen in DS9: "Far Beyond the Stars" with his black power civil right nonsense..

Seriously.. as much as i love DS9 and consider it probably the best of the "new era" Star Trek, those few episodes with Avery Brooks voicing his mind instead of opening it were pretty hideous....... I imagine Gene Roddenberry must have cut wind in his grave..

-crim
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Old April 1 2013, 03:17 AM   #29
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

StarTrekSlut wrote: View Post
If anyone cares to hear my two cents:

.. I thought Chakotays ethnic rants were pretty tame.... well tame when you compare it to the times they let Avery Brooks loose with a pen in DS9: "Far Beyond the Stars" with his black power civil right nonsense..

Seriously.. as much as i love DS9 and consider it probably the best of the "new era" Star Trek, those few episodes with Avery Brooks voicing his mind instead of opening it were pretty hideous....... I imagine Gene Roddenberry must have cut wind in his grave..

-crim
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Old April 1 2013, 03:17 AM   #30
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Re: anyone else APPRECIATE chakotay's ethnic bits?

Gene Roddenberry would have loved every second of Sisko's civil rights rants in Far Beyond as well as his commentary in Vic Fontaine's about the historical inaccuracy making him uncomfortable.
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