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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old June 19 2013, 05:00 AM   #526
teacake
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

I agree with everyone who says it became the EMH and 7 show. It's just I loved the EMH and 7 show so for me it was a happy turn of events.

I like how you say, "or even Chakotay". Now there was sidelining. Kim you expect, the Engineer, well they always have to bellow up from the bowels of the ship about what they canna do but the first officer?
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Old June 19 2013, 05:05 AM   #527
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

teacake wrote: View Post
I agree with everyone who says it became the EMH and 7 show. It's just I loved the EMH and 7 show so for me it was a happy turn of events.
That would be like the most awesome sitcom ever.
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Old June 21 2013, 03:08 AM   #528
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

teacake wrote: View Post
I agree with everyone who says it became the EMH and 7 show. It's just I loved the EMH and 7 show so for me it was a happy turn of events.

I like how you say, "or even Chakotay". Now there was sidelining. Kim you expect, the Engineer, well they always have to bellow up from the bowels of the ship about what they canna do but the first officer?
You are so funny Teacake. I would probably not still be participating in this board if it were not for your presence and humor.
I'm being sincere. (A comment I only need to make because we are surrounded by sarcastic assholes, with whom I do NOT identify-- or at least it sometimes seems that way)

Yes, but even so, I liked Chuckles. (I know I am in a minority here). He may have seemed bland, dull and predictable to some. But to me he was solid and dependable. Good character! Just like Kim.
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Old June 21 2013, 12:37 PM   #529
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

I like Chakotay well enough, he is very easy on the eyes. He's just sorta dull at times and of course the thought of him touching the precious that way is jarring. Don't worry lots of people like him, there are plenty of J/C in this forum, in fact I think that is the current dominant ship for Our Captain.

:: waves to the ship from a more exotic shore ::

Oh and thanks for the compliment, this is the best forum on the board. We need the more caustic folk, they are fun to poke from time to time.
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Old June 21 2013, 04:44 PM   #530
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

When Voyager was on, I became alienated from the attempts to use the series to atone what was perceived to be wrong with Star Trek in general. TNG was too PC and lacked continuity, and DS9 was stuck in place, and overall the series was too optimistic. I didn't mind the introduction of 7 of 9, but I hated the whole exploration of "individuality," which sounded like trying to inject Data with huge doses of Libertarianism. To a lesser extent, the same flaws crept into DS9 (hello, Defiant), but may have been minimized because of the split of writing talent between the two shows. Odo's struggle to be lovable and Nog's search for respectability (the former narrative annoyed me, while I enjoyed the latter) didn't consume the show the way 7 or 9's development did. And sadly, Voyager was set up for many personal journeys: Chakotary, Torres, Kim and Paris were all set up to earn redemption, but at some point it was not longer addressed. In the end, Enterprise suffered most, trying to emulate the spirit and style of the original series but find some place for the "edge" that made sci-fi in the naughts sellable.
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Old June 22 2013, 12:43 AM   #531
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

The exploration of humanity is a bedrock Trek theme. I don't think any more time is spent on 7's search for her humanity than Data's.
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Old June 22 2013, 12:50 AM   #532
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

I feel cheated that Kim took his humanity for granted.
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Old June 22 2013, 01:43 AM   #533
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

But he explored his fake alien-ity in Favorite Son. Just imagine if that had continued for a few seasons.
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Old June 22 2013, 01:59 AM   #534
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

Or possibly imagine if Seven got her humanity under her belt by Day of Honour?
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Old June 22 2013, 02:04 AM   #535
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

The exploration of humanity is a bedrock Trek theme. I don't think any more time is spent on 7's search for her humanity than Data's.
Of course it was. However, the focus was not on humanity as a whole, but almost exclusively on one aspect thereof. It sounded to me as if the show was trying to distance itself from the humanism of TNG. Perhaps the pendulum needed to swing the other way. Regardless, the pervasive and literal references to "individuality" were as subtle as a sledgehammer.
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Old June 22 2013, 02:05 AM   #536
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

It's Star Trek, no one ever really gets their humanity under their belt. Where would all the speeches go?
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Old June 22 2013, 02:06 AM   #537
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

Bad thoughts wrote: View Post
The exploration of humanity is a bedrock Trek theme. I don't think any more time is spent on 7's search for her humanity than Data's.
Of course it was. However, the focus was not on humanity as a whole, but almost exclusively on one aspect thereof. It sounded to me as if the show was trying to distance itself from the humanism of TNG. Perhaps the pendulum needed to swing the other way. Regardless, the pervasive and literal references to "individuality" were as subtle as a sledgehammer.
Individuality is going to be THE issue for anyone freed from the Borg. Why would anyone need to be subtle about it? The Borg sure aren't subtle in their elimination of it.
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Old June 22 2013, 02:14 AM   #538
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Re: When did voyager go wrong?

Individuality is going to be THE issue for anyone freed from the Borg. Why would anyone need to be subtle about it? The Borg sure aren't subtle in their elimination of it.
Because the Borg have successfully integrated all other aspects of humanity, or because the writers were hamstrung into a one-dimensional developmental path for a major character?
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