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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old June 7 2013, 12:12 PM   #211
Irishman
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
TWOK is Shakespeare compared to ST09 which was so fucking stupid in every respect it's embarrassing. But they made a lot of money so that makes it allright.

Then again I care nothing for the Big Bang Theory or The Office either that so many rave about.
The science in ST09 was definitely stupid. STiD was no better (communicator calls, and site-to-site beaming from Earth to Q'onoS? Riiiight!)

Two things the JJTrek films get right:

1. Pacing. The problem with films with an aging cast (Paramount has faced this twice, once with the TOS cast, and once with the TNG cast) is they get tired and slow. There are ways you can work around that - to a degree - but just having your geriatric main cast sit around and talk more doesn't solve that problem for a sci-fi film. It has to move, and move quickly. Either recasting or writing a totally new set of characters/events to build and explore.

2. New writers. The second biggest albatross around the neck of Trek TV and films has been the recycled writing, carried out by the same same insular, incestuous group that did no favors to Paramount, the fans, the actors, etc. When you think about it, over as many decades as Trek TV and film has carried on, it was bound to happen. Why didn't it earlier, when it could have made a difference for Voyager and Enterprise? Inertia.

My 2 cents.
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Old June 7 2013, 12:23 PM   #212
Irishman
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
Star Trek has always been escapist fantasy. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
No, Trek was not always escapist. It used to be about the possibilities of the future. Our future.
Except for when it didn't.

Spock's Brain, Miri, Turnabout Intruder, The Way to Eden, The Empath, The Paradise Syndrome, The Omega Glory, Patterns of Force, A Piece of the Action, The Apple, Catspaw, Operation: Aniihilate!, The Alternative Factor are examples of silly or stupid Trek writing.
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Old June 7 2013, 12:26 PM   #213
Warped9
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Trek being about our future is a conceit I've never bought into.
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Old June 7 2013, 01:14 PM   #214
Irishman
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Trek being about our future is a conceit I've never bought into.
Certainly it's an alternative universe anyway (where are the Cetacean Institute and the Millenium Gate on Google Maps?), but certainly by 1996. I don't remember missing the eugenics wars.
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Old June 7 2013, 02:50 PM   #215
Nerys Myk
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Trek being about our future is a conceit I've never bought into.
Wasn't that one of the points of the show? Demonstrating that we people, places and events that don't line up with reality. Especially when time catches up with them. but that's unavoidable. No one writing for the show, from Roddenberry down to the guy contributing a one off plot set out to create an alternate history or future. That it is an alternate history/future is fannish rationalization that allows everything on screen to "fit". It's a bit like hording, they can't throw anything away.
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Old June 8 2013, 08:09 PM   #216
publiusr
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Thus the reboot.

A journey into TOS primes past--being like what the folks in the 1950s-1960s would be our present--and a line about how--oh...I don't know...how a silly war with Iraq was avoided with money pumped into spaceflight instead...
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Old June 8 2013, 09:45 PM   #217
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Irishman wrote: View Post
1. Pacing. The problem with films with an aging cast (Paramount has faced this twice, once with the TOS cast, and once with the TNG cast) is they get tired and slow. There are ways you can work around that - to a degree - but just having your geriatric main cast sit around and talk more doesn't solve that problem for a sci-fi film. It has to move, and move quickly. Either recasting or writing a totally new set of characters/events to build and explore.
A film's pacing has nothing to do with the age of the actors. That is a truly blatant misconception.
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Old June 9 2013, 01:17 AM   #218
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
A film's pacing has nothing to do with the age of the actors. That is a truly blatant misconception.
Certainly the latest movie's pacing is effected by a leading man who moves through it like a coiled spring. You can't realistically have a fast paced movie, with a low energy cast. It does come across on screen.

Give credit where credit is due. I'm not the biggest fan of the two Abrams movies, but youthful Chris Pine brings an energy to his movie (not just his role in it) that neither aging Shatner or Stewart ever could.

Irishman wrote: View Post
... The Empath, The Paradise Syndrome ... Operation: Aniihilate! ...are examples of silly or stupid Trek writing.
Those particular examples do not match your description of them.


Last edited by T'Girl; June 9 2013 at 01:27 AM.
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Old June 9 2013, 07:17 AM   #219
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Aw hell, it was just a fun show; that sometimes amused, sometimes made me sad and sometimes made me think.

But going nuts on canon and what's official and not is just daft and it's overthinking things anyhow.

And if truth be told, that, and the nitpicking, takes away from the experience at times.
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Old June 10 2013, 02:44 AM   #220
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Wasn't that one of the points of the show?
No, the only point to the show was to create an entertaining SciFi program every week. Some viewers found deeper meaning in it, which is great, but was far from being the point of the show (Unless you buy into the Roddenberry Hype).
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Old June 10 2013, 03:24 AM   #221
Nerys Myk
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Wasn't that one of the points of the show?
No, the only point to the show was to create an entertaining SciFi program every week. Some viewers found deeper meaning in it, which is great, but was far from being the point of the show (Unless you buy into the Roddenberry Hype).
Oh, I know its a TV designed to entertain. My posting history on the topic shows that. But one of its conceits is that its our future. Our history and present is Star Trek's past. That how things were treated in TOS and the spinoffs. As I said the writers did not set out to create and alternate history. It is however a mostly positive future.

The post you pulled that quote out of is a bit of a mess. Looks like I screwed the editing somehow. Lets try again:

Warped9 wrote:
Trek being about our future is a conceit I've never bought into.
Wasn't that one of the points of the show? Its supposed to be our future. Their few predictions for the "near future" are going to fall far from the mark, especially when reality catches up with them. No one writing for the show, from Roddenberry down to the guy contributing a one off plot set out to create an alternate history or future. I'm sure none of them thought people would be talking about Star Trek in 1996, much less 2013.That it is an alternate history/future is fannish rationalization that allows everything on screen to "fit". It's a bit like hording, they can't throw anything away.
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Old June 10 2013, 03:32 AM   #222
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
That it is an alternate history/future is fannish rationalization that allows everything on screen to "fit". It's a bit like hording, they can't throw anything away.
I don't think it's hoarding. I just tend to think that events like the Saturn V probe or the Eugenics Wars or the 1968 Nuclear Weapons platform give the universe its own distinct flavor.
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Old June 10 2013, 04:09 AM   #223
Nerys Myk
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
That it is an alternate history/future is fannish rationalization that allows everything on screen to "fit". It's a bit like hording, they can't throw anything away.
I don't think it's hoarding. I just tend to think that events like the Saturn V probe or the Eugenics Wars or the 1968 Nuclear Weapons platform give the universe its own distinct flavor.
I guess. I'm of the school if is didn't happen in our past it didn't happen in Star Trek's past either. That's the approach the writers took most of the time. So I'm more than willing to shift the Eugenics War to the next Century.
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Old June 10 2013, 04:18 AM   #224
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
So I'm more than willing to shift the Eugenics War to the next Century.
I wouldn't be devastated if the Eugenics Wars were moved, especially in a hard-reboot of the franchise. But, I like that these details have survived various creative teams. I think it shows that the producers of Modern Trek had/have a lot more respect for TOS than many fans recognize.
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Old June 10 2013, 04:22 AM   #225
Nerys Myk
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
So I'm more than willing to shift the Eugenics War to the next Century.
I wouldn't be devastated if the Eugenics Wars were moved, especially in a hard-reboot of the franchise. But, I like that these details have survived various creative teams. I think it shows that the producers of Modern Trek had/have a lot more respect for TOS than many fans recognize.
Most they've been ignored. Till Enterprise brought them up.
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