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Old March 27 2013, 06:31 AM   #16
Melakon
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

Member planets also benefit by the sharing of industrial, economic and technological advancements.
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Old March 27 2013, 11:47 AM   #17
T'Girl
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

Mutual defense is one of the Federation's key ideals.

Also, one of the Federation's beginning purposes could have be as a intergovernmental trade bloc. Access to each others markets and lower tariffs.

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Old March 27 2013, 12:00 PM   #18
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

t_smitts wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
In Captain Solok's case, it's understandable, as his evident racial prejudice against Humans would almost certainly preclude him serving on the same ship as them. He believes Vulcans are a superior race (which is in itself an anti-Federation and illogical view), so naturally he would want only Vulcans on his crew.
Would a captain even be allowed to do that? And what if Bolian, Andorian, Trill, Bajoran, or Betazoid crewmembers were assigned to the ship. What would his attitude be towards them?
I'm assuming that a captain has some degree of control over who is assigned to a ship. At least Solok does. He could probably pull some strings at Starfleet Command to ensure that the racial purity of his crew was maintained.
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Old March 27 2013, 02:04 PM   #19
neozeks
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

Yeah, biological (in)compatiibility is the best and most logical explanation. I imagine Starfleet tries it best to integrate compatible species and overcome the incompatibilities with other species through technical and medical means (that's actually a large theme of the USS Titan novel series) but in the end you can only do so much before simple practicality kicks in.

Though when it comes to there being some Vulcan only ships, I could also see that as a historical perk Vulcans got thanks to being a founding species. After all, no organization as large and complex as Starfleet (and the Federation) can be completely consistent in regards to it's ideals without any special cases and compromises. Or maybe it's just Starfleet policy to have a couple of single-species ships for each of it's species in addition to the multi-species ships, just for the diversity of crew organizing approaches. Or it's a remnant from the earlier, presumably less integrated (for political, not biological reasons) days of previous centuries. Most likely it's ALL of the above reasons.
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Old March 27 2013, 02:34 PM   #20
Phily B
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

i always thought that maybe there are more humans simply because there are more ncos
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Old March 27 2013, 06:28 PM   #21
T'Girl
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

^ Non Commissioned Officers? Why couldn't there be enlisted crewmembers from other species than Humans?
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Old March 27 2013, 06:46 PM   #22
Sci
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

My suspicion is that this is a combination of institutional inertia growing out of the founding worlds' original fleets, and of issues with biological compatibility and potential cultural conflicts.

So we might have seen the early Federation Starfleet practice de facto species segregation essentially by allowing the crews of Vulcan, Andorian, Tellarite, and Human ships to continue serving amongst themselves when it folded the Vulcan, Andorian, Tellarite, and Human space services under the Federation Starfleet banner. This may have been both a concession to prejudice and the history of inter-species conflicts, and to more legitimate concerns about how to integrate space services with vastly different operational cultures.

Over time, I imagine that Starfleet has gotten better at inter-species integration, with segregated ships or mostly segregated ships being less common. This seems to agree with the canon, which has gradually increased its depictions of non-Humans aboard Starfleet ships and stations. So maybe by the 23rd Century, we'd see a mostly-Human-with-a-Vulcan ship like the U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 (or maybe a mostly-Andorian-with-a-single-Tellarite ship like the U.S.S. Kumari NCC-1702, or a mostly-Vulcan-with-a-single-Andorian ship like the U.S.S. ShiKahr NCC-1703); and then by the 24th Century, we see a ship with a Human plurality but a significant multi-species minority like the Enterprise-D (with corresponding other pluralities on other ships); and perhaps by the 25th Century, the Enterprise-H is so thoroughly integrated that there's no real species dominance in its crew makeup.

The novels have addressed the question of inter-species integration in the Federation Starfleet. Part of the premise behind the Star Trek: Titan series is that the U.S.S. Titan, and its other Luna-class sister ships, was explicitly designed to have the most biologically and culturally diverse crews ever seen.
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Old March 27 2013, 07:14 PM   #23
t_smitts
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
t_smitts wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
In Captain Solok's case, it's understandable, as his evident racial prejudice against Humans would almost certainly preclude him serving on the same ship as them. He believes Vulcans are a superior race (which is in itself an anti-Federation and illogical view), so naturally he would want only Vulcans on his crew.
Would a captain even be allowed to do that? And what if Bolian, Andorian, Trill, Bajoran, or Betazoid crewmembers were assigned to the ship. What would his attitude be towards them?
I'm assuming that a captain has some degree of control over who is assigned to a ship. At least Solok does. He could probably pull some strings at Starfleet Command to ensure that the racial purity of his crew was maintained.
Yes, a captain would have some discretion over the crew assigned to his ship, but it seems highly unlikely that a captain could request ONLY members of his own species.
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Old March 27 2013, 08:15 PM   #24
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

Well, since most aliens we see in Trek seem to be able to mingle comfortably with humans without either species needing anything in terms of breathingmasks or gravity-support ( I said most, not all), the entire idea of only humans being able to serve in the lifesupport settings on a starship is not a very good one.
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Old March 27 2013, 08:25 PM   #25
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

I'd like to see an all-Excalbian ship, but I'm guessing they don't travel in ships.
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Old March 27 2013, 09:51 PM   #26
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

t_smitts wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
t_smitts wrote: View Post


Would a captain even be allowed to do that? And what if Bolian, Andorian, Trill, Bajoran, or Betazoid crewmembers were assigned to the ship. What would his attitude be towards them?
I'm assuming that a captain has some degree of control over who is assigned to a ship. At least Solok does. He could probably pull some strings at Starfleet Command to ensure that the racial purity of his crew was maintained.
Yes, a captain would have some discretion over the crew assigned to his ship, but it seems highly unlikely that a captain could request ONLY members of his own species.
Or perhaps the T'Kumbra gradually became a Vulcan-only ship, as the non-Vulcans who served there eventually left because they couldn't stand Solok's attitude.
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Old March 27 2013, 10:43 PM   #27
LobsterAfternoon
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

I'd like to think that it's really just budgetary. Plus, if you want, you can pretend any human with brown eyes is a Betazoid.
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Old March 27 2013, 10:44 PM   #28
LobsterAfternoon
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

I don't want to get into a canon argument, but the crews in the novels and comics are significantly more diverse, yah?
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Old March 28 2013, 12:20 AM   #29
The Wormhole
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

Realistically, as a Nebula class ship, the T'Kumbra likely has a crew of 900. I don't see how they could all be Vulcan. Even with Solok being a rascist prick, wouldn't he really only have a say in his senior staff? Surely the captain doesn't decide every individual crew member of a ship, just the senior staff and other key officer posts. The bulk of the enlisted crew would simply be assigned by Starfleet and Solok would have to make do. And really, I don't see Starfleet assigning only people of a certain species to a ship with a crew of 900.
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Old March 28 2013, 01:34 AM   #30
Shawnster
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Re: Same-species ship; not very UFP?

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
I'd like to see an all-Excalbian ship, but I'm guessing they don't travel in ships.
I always thought the Sheliak were very similar to the Excalibans; but, that may have been due to poor TV reception.
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