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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old March 26 2013, 03:33 PM   #16
Trek Survivor
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

Mitty wrote: View Post

So, sorry if I'm missing it but did he complete all his scenes and they chose not to use them, or was it only partially completed when he died and therefore they had to reshoot the Fajo portions?
Not completely clear. What we konw:

-Episode was filmed in March. According to the TNG Companion, "a few days" into filming, Rappaport attempted suicide (the attempt was not successful).

-After this ATTEMPT, the TNG crew recast and reshot whatever scenes had already been made with Rappaport (it's not clear whether this was every Fajo scene, or only some. Each episode took, if I recall, about 6 days to shoot, so a "few days" could have been as much as 50% through filming, though not all these scenes may have been with Fajo in).

-Rappaport later successfully killed himself at beginning of May.
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Old March 26 2013, 06:42 PM   #17
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

Mitty wrote: View Post
I still think the key moment from this episode is of course when Data is being beamed back and his phaser is in discharge. Did Data lie? Was it simply a natural deduction of his program to attempt to kill Fajo, and it was simply good timing that he didn't end up doing so? To me this is one of the most intriguing questions from TNG and it was a shame it wasn't somehow followed up later.
I remember that part of the episode even though I haven't seen it since it was on originally. I thought it was cool that Data "decided" to get rid of him but then seemed to lie about it. I wish they built on that.
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Old March 26 2013, 07:06 PM   #18
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

Well technically River Phoenix killed himself; how do you feel about his films? Do you find it impossible to listen to Kurt Cobain? Or watch Tony Scott films?

sorry: @ yousirname
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Old March 26 2013, 08:21 PM   #19
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

It's one thing to watch something made by someone who went on to kill themselves. It's another thing to watch something they started to make but didn't finish because they then killed themselves.

Like I said, it's just me. It's not wrong to want to see it, just feels slightly icky to me.
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Old March 26 2013, 08:33 PM   #20
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

I have a problem with referring to suicide as 'icky'.
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Old March 26 2013, 08:49 PM   #21
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

Best find someone who called it that, then. I called the desire to see the last and unused scenes shot by a depressed actor before he killed himself 'slightly icky'.
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Old March 26 2013, 10:06 PM   #22
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

I always found the interest in David Rappaport by Trek fans to be bizarre when he didn't even appear in an episode.
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Old March 26 2013, 10:41 PM   #23
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

Rappaport was awesome. Time Bandits is one of my all time faves and he's a big reason why. I would have liked to see him again, especially as a bad guy in this eps. Seeing him as sleazy Fajo would have been something.

But I wonder, would they really show Data gunning down a midget in cold blood?
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Old March 26 2013, 10:42 PM   #24
Maxwell Everett
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

Trek Survivor wrote: View Post
Mitty wrote: View Post

So, sorry if I'm missing it but did he complete all his scenes and they chose not to use them, or was it only partially completed when he died and therefore they had to reshoot the Fajo portions?
Not completely clear. What we konw:

-Episode was filmed in March. According to the TNG Companion, "a few days" into filming, Rappaport attempted suicide (the attempt was not successful).

-After this ATTEMPT, the TNG crew recast and reshot whatever scenes had already been made with Rappaport (it's not clear whether this was every Fajo scene, or only some. Each episode took, if I recall, about 6 days to shoot, so a "few days" could have been as much as 50% through filming, though not all these scenes may have been with Fajo in).

-Rappaport later successfully killed himself at beginning of May.
We can actually pin things down a little bit more. We know that Rappaport had attempted suicide by inhaling automobile exhaust on Sunday March 4th, 1990. The TNG Companion actually specifies that he completed two days of filming. Assuming his work on the episode began along with everyone else, that means the first day of filming was Thursday March 1st.

A typical TNG episode filmed for seven days (sometimes they shot an episode in six days, but that wasn't the norm). Each day of the week the call time for the actors and crew is later and later due to minimum turnaround, so filming on Friday probably started in the early afternoon and went into Saturday morning. That's probably where the "few days" (i.e. three) mentioned on Memory Alpha comes from.

Given this, I'd say he completed roughly a third of his role by the time he was replaced. Could still be wrong though... as you say, without knowing what scenes were shot when, we can't know how much of his specific role was completed. Hopefully the segment on the S3 set will tell us.
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Old March 26 2013, 10:55 PM   #25
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

Dream wrote: View Post
I always found the interest in David Rappaport by Trek fans to be bizarre when he didn't even appear in an episode.
I think his tragic story is why there is interest. Also, almost no one's seen this footage before now... and how many other actors have been cast in a Star Trek role, filmed for a short time, then were replaced for whatever reason, and then died before the episode/film came out, the footage vaulted and forgotten? I think he's the only one. Am I right?
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Old March 26 2013, 11:11 PM   #26
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

I have no prob with the conclusion of that episode, but Kivas is putting a lot of faith in Data's not wanting to destroy any one-of-a-kind artifacts*. (My fanwank as to why the idea isn't even brought up). Data also could have taken Kivas head off by throwing a vase at it.

Edit: I'm watching the ep now. The scene where Geordi is in the Ready Room and saying "It doesn't make sense."....wtf is Riker sitting on? A high chair? His butt is at Picard's face-level. Who sits in a chair two feet higher than every other chair in the room?
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Old March 26 2013, 11:37 PM   #27
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
I always found the interest in David Rappaport by Trek fans to be bizarre when he didn't even appear in an episode.
I think his tragic story is why there is interest. Also, almost no one's seen this footage before now... and how many other actors have been cast in a Star Trek role, filmed for a short time, then were replaced for whatever reason, and then died before the episode/film came out, the footage vaulted and forgotten? I think he's the only one. Am I right?
Was Barrymore filmed at all before he was replaced on The Alternative Factor? Then there's Genvieve Bujold. Neither was a death, but similar circumstances.
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Old March 27 2013, 12:19 AM   #28
Maxwell Everett
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
I always found the interest in David Rappaport by Trek fans to be bizarre when he didn't even appear in an episode.
I think his tragic story is why there is interest. Also, almost no one's seen this footage before now... and how many other actors have been cast in a Star Trek role, filmed for a short time, then were replaced for whatever reason, and then died before the episode/film came out, the footage vaulted and forgotten? I think he's the only one. Am I right?
Was Barrymore filmed at all before he was replaced on The Alternative Factor? Then there's Genvieve Bujold. Neither was a death, but similar circumstances.
Thanks. Forgot about those two. According to MemoryAlpha, Barrymore failed to show up for work on the first day of filming.
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Old March 27 2013, 01:05 AM   #29
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

if you want to see the footage to see how he acted the role, etc that doesn't seem particularly morbid. he was good in time bandits and its an interesting glimpse into what could have been. it's not slightly icky, but it is tragic.
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Old March 27 2013, 01:13 AM   #30
diankra
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Re: David Rappaport in "The Most Toys"

Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
Trek Survivor wrote: View Post
Mitty wrote: View Post

So, sorry if I'm missing it but did he complete all his scenes and they chose not to use them, or was it only partially completed when he died and therefore they had to reshoot the Fajo portions?
Not completely clear. What we konw:

-Episode was filmed in March. According to the TNG Companion, "a few days" into filming, Rappaport attempted suicide (the attempt was not successful).

-After this ATTEMPT, the TNG crew recast and reshot whatever scenes had already been made with Rappaport (it's not clear whether this was every Fajo scene, or only some. Each episode took, if I recall, about 6 days to shoot, so a "few days" could have been as much as 50% through filming, though not all these scenes may have been with Fajo in).

-Rappaport later successfully killed himself at beginning of May.
We can actually pin things down a little bit more. We know that Rappaport had attempted suicide by inhaling automobile exhaust on Sunday March 4th, 1990. The TNG Companion actually specifies that he completed two days of filming. Assuming his work on the episode began along with everyone else, that means the first day of filming was Thursday March 1st.

A typical TNG episode filmed for seven days (sometimes they shot an episode in six days, but that wasn't the norm). Each day of the week the call time for the actors and crew is later and later due to minimum turnaround, so filming on Friday probably started in the early afternoon and went into Saturday morning. That's probably where the "few days" (i.e. three) mentioned on Memory Alpha comes from.

Given this, I'd say he completed roughly a third of his role by the time he was replaced. Could still be wrong though... as you say, without knowing what scenes were shot when, we can't know how much of his specific role was completed. Hopefully the segment on the S3 set will tell us.
If TNG was anything like Doctor Who, and assuming there were no other scheduling complications, they'd usually shoot the scenes on new sets or with guest actors at the start of the shoot (again, assuming those sets were available), and then shoot the scenes on the regular/standing sets at the end of the week (as those could be rescheduled for later if things went disastrously wrong).
So as Rappaport's scenes were largely (if not all - haven't seen the episode recently enough to be sure) on his character's ship, not the Enterprise, two or days of shooting might be closer to two thirds or more of more of his scenes.
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