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Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

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Old March 26 2013, 05:37 PM   #31
DalekJim
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

Enterprise gets so much hate because most people that bash it haven't seen the superb final few seasons. It's not up there with DS9 or TOS as one of my favourite Trek shows but it was a very good show towards the end.

This thread has inspired me to do a rewatch of the whole show. I'd make a marathon thread but knowing my net-charisma nobody would read it . Excited for Season 3 in particular.
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Old March 26 2013, 05:47 PM   #32
Dale Sams
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

At the time, I hated the song, the look of the show was same ol same ol, the unis didn't quite do it for me...typical post-TOS horrible, emotional acting from the Vulcans, I resented their attempts to 'sex it up'.

Now as i watch it, I like it quite a lot. The Sci-Fi is harder than usual. The fanwank is well done. And I've reconciled the sex since sex does actually happen in old school Sci-Fi books.

And I'm still on episode 7 of S3. I've still got S4 to look forward too.
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Old March 26 2013, 06:25 PM   #33
Danger Ace
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Enterprise was at least average for modern Trek, and a lot of it was pretty good.

I'm guessing you also prefer drinking milk after its expiration date.
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Old March 26 2013, 06:55 PM   #34
BillJ
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Enterprise was at least average for modern Trek, and a lot of it was pretty good.

I'm guessing you also prefer drinking milk after its expiration date.
Enterprise wasn't a bad show. It was just a show that suffered from burnout by the creative staff. And honestly, its episode hit-to-miss ratio is no worse than that of any other Trek series.

It would probably be more fondly remembered if Archer hadn't been such a dufus early on and there weren't six-hundred episodes of the Star Trek franchise preceding it.
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Old March 26 2013, 09:34 PM   #35
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Enterprise was at least average for modern Trek, and a lot of it was pretty good.

I'm guessing you also prefer drinking milk after its expiration date.
In that case we know that at least two careers would be poor fits for you: entertainment critic and psychic.

BillJ wrote: View Post
...and there weren't six-hundred episodes of the Star Trek franchise preceding it.
That was enough right there.
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Old March 26 2013, 09:57 PM   #36
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Enterprise wasn't a bad show. It was just a show that suffered from burnout by the creative staff.
Totally agree on that point. It has it moments (even in S1/2) when it was really good and some of the character work was well done, but they really should have taken a break for at least a year if not several to recharge the batteries and bring in some fresh blood.

BillJ wrote: View Post
It would probably be more fondly remembered if Archer hadn't been such a dufus early on
I find Archer to be the biggest flaw in the series. He just never comes across as Captainy, going from being a bumbling idiot to begin with to an unstable nutter in S3, but always seems flat and uninspired.
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Old March 26 2013, 10:01 PM   #37
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

I found him a welcome improvement after Janeway.
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Old March 26 2013, 10:16 PM   #38
Danger Ace
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Danger Ace wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Enterprise was at least average for modern Trek, and a lot of it was pretty good.

I'm guessing you also prefer drinking milk after its expiration date.
In that case we know that at least two careers would be poor fits for you: entertainment critic and psychic.
But neither would be as poor a fit as Jolene Blalock is to a career in acting or Brannon Braga is as executive-producer of a "Star Trek" series.
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Old March 26 2013, 10:19 PM   #39
Jar Jar Binks
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Enterprise wasn't a bad show. It was just a show that suffered from burnout by the creative staff.
Totally agree on that point. It has it moments (even in S1/2) when it was really good and some of the character work was well done, but they really should have taken a break for at least a year if not several to recharge the batteries and bring in some fresh blood.
According to what I've read over the years, B&B did want to take at least a year off to recharge and also to refine their concept, but UPN wanted a new Trek show to start immediately, so they had to rush right in.
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Old March 26 2013, 10:31 PM   #40
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

Archer was a buffoon, which is the main reason why I never warmed up to ENT. I have to actually like the captain to enjoy a Trek series.
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Old March 26 2013, 10:53 PM   #41
Danger Ace
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Enterprise wasn't a bad show. It was just a show that suffered from burnout by the creative staff.
No one held a gun to the "creative staffs" collective heads and forced them to churn out "Enterprise" episodes like so many tennis shoes from a chinese sweatshop!

If any or all of the staff were "burnt out" then they had a duty to stepdown rather than grab a paycheck for sub-par work. Really, that has got to be the most poorly thought out line of reasoning one could profer to support their contention that "Enterprise" was "average" Trek.

"Average" Star Trek was still good and better than most TV shows. "Enterprise" went downhill from a mediocre-at-best first season.

FYI, this is why I respectfully contend that "Fans of Enterprise" (FOE) have no ability to discern or distinguish a "good" production from a "bad" production. They, IMO, will bark and clap for anything said to be set in the "Star Trek" Universe. They were willing accomplices in Berman & Braga's driving "Star Trek" into the ground and they should be ashamed! ASHAMED!

Whoa! How's that for venting? Boy, do I feel better. Anyone up for a beer?


It would probably be more fondly remembered if Archer hadn't been such a dufus early on and there weren't six-hundred episodes of the Star Trek franchise preceding it.
No, it would have been more fondly remembered if those in-charge had "cared for" and "believed in" what they were doing from it's inception.

I would add that I exclude Manny Cotto from my criticism as I think he really tried to take the shit he was given and make something good out it. When he stepped in, however, "Enterprise's" fate was already a done deal. Even still, he tried. That's what I respect and all I expect.

If I at all felt Braga (and/or Berman) had "swung for the fences" on this "Enterprise" then whether it succeeded or failed I would have applauded. They didn't even pretend to try. They knew what to say. They knew how to hype fan interest. But when it came to the nuts-and-bolts of its production, my impression, is that neither one cared. And it showed (at least to those not wearing glasses of the rose-colored variety).
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Last edited by Danger Ace; March 26 2013 at 11:04 PM.
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Old March 26 2013, 11:03 PM   #42
Danger Ace
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

Skywalker wrote: View Post
According to what I've read over the years, B&B did want to take at least a year off to recharge and also to refine their concept, but UPN wanted a new Trek show to start immediately, so they had to rush right in.
Then if the environment makes it impossible to turn out quality product then you resign on principle in protest. You make stand for your professional reputation, integrity and credibility if for no other reason. If you can't solve the problem then at least refuse to be part of the problem. JESUS, PEOPLE! Your literally coming up with reasons why it is okay to "screw the pooch." That UPN stuff is CYA bullsh*t. B&B were, "Yes, sir!" and "How high, sir?" all the way.
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Old March 26 2013, 11:11 PM   #43
bullethead
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

Danger Ace wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Enterprise wasn't a bad show. It was just a show that suffered from burnout by the creative staff.
No one held a gun to the "creative staffs" collective heads and forced them to churn out "Enterprise" episodes like so many tennis shoes from a chinese sweatshop!

If any or all of the staff were "burnt out" then they had a duty to stepdown rather than grab a paycheck for sub-par work. Really, that has got to be the most poorly thought out line of reasoning one could profer to support their contention that "Enterprise" was "average" Trek.

"Average" Star Trek was still good and better than most TV shows. "Enterprise" went downhill from a mediocre-at-best first season.
Given what I've seen on Robert Hewitt Wolfe's Twitter, the creative staff did have a gun to their head: the fact that there was no guarantee they could get another job. If one of the main guys who wrote MASH had to keep pitching shows up until he died, it just goes to show that the TV business is a lot harder than most people think it is.

Besides, given what recent interviews with Berman and Braga revealed, like the exec that wanted hot bands to show up on the NX-01, I think Berman and Braga at least managed to keep UPN from making things worse. There's no guarantee that someone else wouldn't have knuckled under to UPN's stupid demands or been too inflexible about the show and gotten replaced with someone who'd do whatever the suits wanted.
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Old March 27 2013, 12:18 AM   #44
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

Skywalker wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Enterprise wasn't a bad show. It was just a show that suffered from burnout by the creative staff.
Totally agree on that point. It has it moments (even in S1/2) when it was really good and some of the character work was well done, but they really should have taken a break for at least a year if not several to recharge the batteries and bring in some fresh blood.
According to what I've read over the years, B&B did want to take at least a year off to recharge and also to refine their concept, but UPN wanted a new Trek show to start immediately, so they had to rush right in.
Pretty much, yeah. The Trek folks also wanted to do a show considerably different than the one that UPN and Paramount wanted.

Enterprise was more entertaining than Trek had managed since around 1995, so it's all good. The only season that was really patchy was the second. As far as this "campaign" to get a new version of it out of the Netflix ratings - that's extraordinarily unlikely, but I'd pay money to see it. I can't say that for most of the Trek spinoffs.
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Old March 27 2013, 12:25 AM   #45
Relayer1
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Re: Why does Enterprise get so much flak?

Dream wrote: View Post
I have to actually like the captain to enjoy a Trek series.
Which explains a large part of my problems with both Enterprise and Voyager...
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