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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old March 25 2013, 04:40 AM   #16
ZapBrannigan
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Re: Exeter Patch

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
A previous discussion revealed that the original intent was for everyone to use the delta, but somehow wires got crossed and someone approved different patches for different ships. I think TNG returned to the original idea.
Edit: I thought TMP universalized the arrowhead badge, but the screencaps aren't backing me up.
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Old March 25 2013, 04:53 AM   #17
GNDN18
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Re: Exeter Patch

I forgot about the ill-fated Epsilon IX station and its unique mission patch.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a.../tmphd0102.jpg

And, going all the way back to the beginning, another bored ship's captain is wearing a delta. Of course, he could have been Pike's replacement....

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...cagehd1564.jpg

Last edited by GNDN18; March 25 2013 at 04:56 AM. Reason: Pesky Roman numerals and my dyscalculia conspired.
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Old March 25 2013, 05:17 AM   #18
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Re: Exeter Patch

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
scotpens wrote: View Post
feek61 wrote: View Post
Ultimately the delta shield was adopted for the entire starfleet after the Enterprise was the only starship to survive the 5 year mission intact. Don't know how accepted that is but it is my understanding.
It's a fanwank. Make of it what you will.
A previous discussion revealed that the original intent was for everyone to use the delta, but somehow wires got crossed and someone approved different patches for different ships. I think TNG returned to the original idea.
Well, it may be a subtle distinction, but it doesn't appear to be the case that "someone approved" the idea of ship-specific patches; it appears to be more the case that no one approved that idea.

Capsule summary is here:

http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/?p=2329
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Old March 25 2013, 02:15 PM   #19
Robert Comsol
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Re: Exeter Patch

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
I thought TMP universalized the arrowhead badge, but the screencaps aren't backing me up.
They are not? Admiral Kirk of Starfleet (not Captain Kirk of the USS Enterprise) is wearing the delta, thus you are right.

The one thing that stands in the way that the insignias presumably refer to assigned sectors of fleets would be "The Doomsday-Machine", IMHO.

Right from the beginning Spock states that they had charted the system in the previous year, so what's the Constellation's business in their "backyard", as it obviously has an insignia quite different from the one of the Enterprise?

Bob
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Old March 25 2013, 02:24 PM   #20
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Re: Exeter Patch

"The one thing that stands in the way that the insignias presumably refer to assigned sectors of fleets would be "The Doomsday-Machine", IMHO.

Right from the beginning Spock states that they had charted the system in the previous year, so what's the Constellation's business in their "backyard", as it obviously has an insignia quite different from the one of the Enterprise?"



Not really, just another division is assigned to patrol the area that the "Enterprise" was assigned to last year. Similar to the rotation of navel deployments. One year a carrier say "Nimitz" is sent to the Persian Gulf and next year the "Stennis" is sent to the same area. I don't see that the "Constellation" is patrolling an area that the "Enterprise" previously had patrolled as an issue.

The thing more disturbing to me is in "The Omega Glory" when Kirk says that the "Exeter" had been patrolling in that area 6 months ago; he hadn't heard of any trouble. Really? No contact with Starfleet for six months and nobody was worried or sent a ship to investigate its disappearance? The "Enterprise" just by chance ran into the "Exeter" That is bizzare. Maybe they learned their lesson since they DID send the "Enterprise" out to search for the "Defiant" in the episode "The Tholian Web"
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Old March 25 2013, 06:14 PM   #21
Gojira
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Re: Exeter Patch

CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
Gojira wrote: View Post
I am glad that Trek abandoned the different badges for other ships. I never did care for it. I am glad that the symbol for the Enterprise was used for all of Starfleet.
At least as far as TOS goes, I must disagree. The patches for both the Constellation and Exeter are both interesting and visually striking... in fact, both are more interesting than the delta... and they represent the concept that each of the 12 starships was indeed something special, worthy of it's own symbol. If only Bob Justman hadn't ruined that thought for me....
I do like the looks of many of the other patches, I just prefer that Starfleet had one symbol instead of many.
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Old March 25 2013, 09:28 PM   #22
Robert Comsol
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Re: Exeter Patch

feek61 wrote: View Post
Not really, just another division is assigned to patrol the area that the "Enterprise" was assigned to last year. Similar to the rotation of navel deployments. One year a carrier say "Nimitz" is sent to the Persian Gulf and next year the "Stennis" is sent to the same area. I don't see that the "Constellation" is patrolling an area that the "Enterprise" previously had patrolled as an issue.
My point was that the Enterprise apparently patrols the same area as it did a year earlier (which could suggest certain sectors are assigned to certain starships).

Similar story in "The Immunity Syndrome". Of all those unseen insignias I was pretty sure that the Intrepid insignia would be an IDIC symbol. With the sector / fleet insignia concept it would probably just be another delta and we'd forfeit the IDIC insignia.

feek61 wrote: View Post
The thing more disturbing to me is in "The Omega Glory" when Kirk says that the "Exeter" had been patrolling in that area 6 months ago; he hadn't heard of any trouble. Really? No contact with Starfleet for six months and nobody was worried or sent a ship to investigate its disappearance?
Indeed, somebody at Starfleet should have worried ("one of our 12 starships is missing!"). But I found most of the script for this particular episode disturbing.

Bob
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Old March 25 2013, 09:42 PM   #23
feek61
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Re: Exeter Patch

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
feek61 wrote: View Post
Not really, just another division is assigned to patrol the area that the "Enterprise" was assigned to last year. Similar to the rotation of navel deployments. One year a carrier say "Nimitz" is sent to the Persian Gulf and next year the "Stennis" is sent to the same area. I don't see that the "Constellation" is patrolling an area that the "Enterprise" previously had patrolled as an issue.
My point was that the Enterprise apparently patrols the same area as it did a year earlier (which could suggest certain sectors are assigned to certain starships).

Similar story in "The Immunity Syndrome". Of all those unseen insignias I was pretty sure that the Intrepid insignia would be an IDIC symbol. With the sector / fleet insignia concept it would probably just be another delta and we'd forfeit the IDIC insignia.

feek61 wrote: View Post
The thing more disturbing to me is in "The Omega Glory" when Kirk says that the "Exeter" had been patrolling in that area 6 months ago; he hadn't heard of any trouble. Really? No contact with Starfleet for six months and nobody was worried or sent a ship to investigate its disappearance?
Indeed, somebody at Starfleet should have worried ("one of our 12 starships is missing!"). But I found most of the script for this particular episode disturbing.

Bob
Well, the "Enterprise" was responding to a distress signal from the "Constellation." I agree with you about the "Omega" script, lol
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Old March 25 2013, 11:24 PM   #24
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Re: Exeter Patch

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Indeed, somebody at Starfleet should have worried ("one of our 12 starships is missing!"). But I found most of the script for this particular episode disturbing.
"Quickly! Communications Officer!: Since I'm stuck down here for the rest of my life and since everyone onboard is about to perish, in your last few minutes, patch my communicator through to the main shipboard communications controls so that I can call up to the ship whenever I want and fire up the ship's subspace radio remotely from here and transmit messages to Starfleet on a regular basis if I so desire!"

"Wait a minute, Captain Tracey! You mean make it so you can use your communicator from down there on the planet to access the much higher powered ship's communications system to check in with Starfleet Command on a regular basis in order to trick them into believing that everything is hunky-dory with you? I don't think that kind of technology is even possible in the 24th century! That's just madness!"

"Oh, I think it is possible, Lieutenant. I remember how way back in the 21st century people were able to use their hand-held telephones to call their TiVos and other devices in their 'smart houses' to get them to do all kinds of stuff. It must be possible here in the 24th century to set up a similar thing with a couple of button pushes--but we're running out of time!"

"I'm not so sure it can be done, sir. You mean make it so that you, down on the planet, can use the Exeter as a relay station to contact others besides just us--if you wanted to deceive them into thinking all is well?"

"Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I think it is possible: I remember hearing about how Captain Kirk was down on Planet Q once and was able to contact his communications officer Lieutenant Uhura on board the Enterprise to ask her to put him through to Captain Jon Daily of the AstraI Queen on orbit station. I don't think the Enterprise's capabilities are all that more sophisticated than ours on the Exeter, and it sounds like all Lieutenat Uhura had to do was something that we ourselves could rig up to be done in an automated fashion by running what would pbobably be a very small shell script."
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Old March 26 2013, 01:25 AM   #25
ZapBrannigan
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Re: Exeter Patch

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Indeed, somebody at Starfleet should have worried ("one of our 12 starships is missing!"). But I found most of the script for this particular episode disturbing.
"Quickly! Communications Officer!: Since I'm stuck down here for the rest of my life and since everyone onboard is about to perish, in your last few minutes, patch my communicator through to the main shipboard communications controls so that I can call up to the ship whenever I want and fire up the ship's subspace radio remotely from here and transmit messages to Starfleet on a regular basis if I so desire!"

"Wait a minute, Captain Tracey! You mean make it so you can use your communicator from down there on the planet to access the much higher powered ship's communications system to check in with Starfleet Command on a regular basis in order to trick them into believing that everything is hunky-dory with you? I don't think that kind of technology is even possible in the 24th century! That's just madness!"

"Oh, I think it is possible, Lieutenant. I remember how way back in the 21st century people were able to use their hand-held telephones to call their TiVos and other devices in their 'smart houses' to get them to do all kinds of stuff. It must be possible here in the 24th century to set up a similar thing with a couple of button pushes--but we're running out of time!"

"I'm not so sure it can be done, sir. You mean make it so that you, down on the planet, can use the Exeter as a relay station to contact others besides just us--if you wanted to deceive them into thinking all is well?"

"Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I think it is possible: I remember hearing about how Captain Kirk was down on Planet Q once and was able to contact his communications officer Lieutenant Uhura on board the Enterprise to ask her to put him through to Captain Jon Daily of the AstraI Queen on orbit station. I don't think the Enterprise's capabilities are all that more sophisticated than ours on the Exeter, and it sounds like all Lieutenat Uhura had to do was something that we ourselves could rig up to be done in an automated fashion by running what would pbobably be a very small shell script."
That's good. Knowing what we know today, Tracy could absolutely have remoted to the ship's subspace radio and transmitted fake logs to Starfleet Command.
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Old March 26 2013, 02:17 AM   #26
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Re: Exeter Patch

Really, he would have done that (had the crew create a patch to starfleet) in the short amount of time between when the rest of the landing party beamed-up and when he found out they were infected. Boy, besides this guy being a douche; he really thinks quick on his feet too. Are we to believe that somehow he convinced the crew NOT to send a distress call to starfleet but had them use what little time they had left to create a patch to starfleet for him to send fake updates all the while coming-up with the twisted plan to cash-in on the serum just in the little time that the crew were still alive? Wow, how did this guy get in command? They must have REALLY been scraping the bottom of the barrel. I honestly never considered the whole "patch me through to starfleet" theory because it is so outlandish. Just my opinion of course.
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Old March 26 2013, 06:19 AM   #27
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Re: Exeter Patch

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
scotpens wrote: View Post
It's a fanwank. Make of it what you will.
A previous discussion revealed that the original intent was for everyone to use the delta, but somehow wires got crossed and someone approved different patches for different ships. I think TNG returned to the original idea.
Well, it may be a subtle distinction, but it doesn't appear to be the case that "someone approved" the idea of ship-specific patches; it appears to be more the case that no one approved that idea.

Capsule summary is here:

http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/?p=2329
Why'd you point to the New Voyages site when that piece is just cribbing from my and Harvey's posts here?
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Old March 26 2013, 07:22 AM   #28
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Re: Exeter Patch

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
I thought TMP universalized the arrowhead badge, but the screencaps aren't backing me up.
It did. Personnel on the ship and the office complex, in ST:TMP, all wear the delta insignia. (Starbases had their own insignia.) I do recall seeing a publicity blurb that mention Starfleet adopting Enterprise's insignia. Nevertheless, I was inspired by information about variant TOS insignia, including some speculative fan art, in the "Star Trek Concordance" and developed my own patch (for USS Hood, which the Concordance hadn't featured in that section, but the show had referenced the starship) for some fanfic and costumes I was developing.


USS Hood insignia badge by Therin of Andor, on Flickr

The colour has worn off, but the main section was a silvery, shimmering surface, and I blanket-stitched all around it. The white circle is the plain back of a Scouting badge (that had a waratah flower embroidered on its front), which saved me having to do more blanket-stitching!

I counted all the sides of the insignias in the Concordance, and none had seven sides, so that's what I came up with.

In anticipation of ST II, I created a revised version of my own patch for my new uniform, and then, of course, USS Reliant pops up and all of Terrell's crew had the Enterprise delta!


USS Hood insignia badge by Therin of Andor, on Flickr

Originally in painted gold cardboard on a background of white icecream-container plastic, for premiere night of ST II, and later (below) a modification of a cast I made in resin of a commercially available Starfleet insignia pin. Not too bad for a total amateur who'd never worked with rubbery molding compound nor resin before.


USS Hood insignia badge by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
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Old March 26 2013, 07:31 AM   #29
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Re: Exeter Patch

Maurice wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
A previous discussion revealed that the original intent was for everyone to use the delta, but somehow wires got crossed and someone approved different patches for different ships. I think TNG returned to the original idea.
Well, it may be a subtle distinction, but it doesn't appear to be the case that "someone approved" the idea of ship-specific patches; it appears to be more the case that no one approved that idea.

Capsule summary is here:

http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/?p=2329
Why'd you point to the New Voyages site when that piece is just cribbing from my and Harvey's posts here?
I hope you noticed the "Hat tip to Harvey and Maurice at the TrekBBS for unearthing this" comment.

Actually, I did vascillate a bit on where I should point all the thousands of people who would be reading that post: should a link point to the Phase II website, or should it point to the original TrekBBS conversation? (You can see the one I chose.)

Although I didn't think too much about it, I think the one I chose won out because the Phase II link:
  • Had the enormous added value of the pictures
  • It had the virtue of being "encapsulated" so people wouldn't have to read through a whole TrekBBS thread
  • I have control over the Phase II web page content and can update it with new information as it becomes available; that is, I can keep the link current but I can't with a TrekBBS link
  • I knew the URL for the Phase II page; I would have had to dredge up the proper referent to the TrekBBS discussion

I guess that's pretty much it. In the end, it just seemed microscopically more advantageous in the long run. But what I will probably do, is update our web page with appropriate Chicago Manual of Style citation to the TrekBBS discussion.
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Old March 26 2013, 05:41 PM   #30
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Re: Exeter Patch

feek61 wrote: View Post
The thing more disturbing to me is in "The Omega Glory" when Kirk says that the "Exeter" had been patrolling in that area 6 months ago; he hadn't heard of any trouble. Really? No contact with Starfleet for six months and nobody was worried or sent a ship to investigate its disappearance? The "Enterprise" just by chance ran into the "Exeter" That is bizzare. Maybe they learned their lesson since they DID send the "Enterprise" out to search for the "Defiant" in the episode "The Tholian Web"
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Indeed, somebody at Starfleet should have worried ("one of our 12 starships is missing!"). But I found most of the script for this particular episode disturbing.

Bob
I agree completely, I just said so in this thread I find the whole episode disturbing.


As far as the patch itself, I don't think it holds up well to close up veiwing. It reminds me too much of something my grandmother would have with the thread swirls. But thanks for posting, it's interesting to see. It's very pretty.
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