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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old March 27 2013, 07:46 PM   #16
Worf'sParmach
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Re: How does Changeling society operate?

Timo wrote: View Post
I imagine there has to be more than just that random rock ledge on their planet, right?
Probably not. After all, the Founders would want to keep the Dominion as far away from them as they possibly can!

...

They certainly wouldn't want to build any Jem'Hadar or Vorta there, let alone ships or weapons - all they would really need is a communications room for contacting a select bunch of Vorta in the Dominion proper, and telling them how to run the show. We see some facilities on the first hideout world, namely those used for interrogating the Defiant captives, and some Vorta there, but there might be very little else on that planet besides the big seas of Founder goo and the few inspirational rock outcroppings sticking out of the seas.

Timo Saloniemi
I guess what I'm thinking is... how did they first get off their planet? We've seen Changelings become birds and fly around but can they fly through space? Or would they require some infrastructure on their homeworld to develop technology and build ships? I can definitely imagine them not wanting to 'build' Jem'Hadar and Vorta on their Homeworld now (heck, they probably don't even allow them to visit). But how does a species with (seemingly) no infrastructure on their homeworld at all develop the technology to rule an entire quadrant? Do they even have weapons? What made the big pool of goo so scary to everyone?
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Old March 27 2013, 08:10 PM   #17
Hando
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Re: How does Changeling society operate?

^ We have seen them changing the homeworld once already during DS9. So it is possible that neither planet shown was their original homeworld.

Also wasn't their Progenitor a space-based lifeform? If not they themselves could have evolved in space...
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Old March 27 2013, 08:15 PM   #18
Timo
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Re: How does Changeling society operate?

The Changelings apparently were persecuted by Solids throughout their history, until they managed to found the Dominion and reverse their fortunes. We could assume the Solids took the Changelings off their birthworld originally, and spread them out as research subjects, curios, or possibly useful domestic animals. Although "Chimera" does establish that Changelings are capable of powered spaceflight, at sublight speeds at least.

The ability to mimic not only people but technology to perfection would probably allow Changeling individuals to rule worlds the way vampires and other clever immortals gain world dominance in mainstream fantasy writing. All it takes is a bit of patience, a bit of sense of drama, and a string of really mysterious deaths...

One would expect there to have been a stage in their history when they weren't a giant planet-sized pool of goo, but rather a series of individual puddles subsisting in "realistic" ecological niches on their birthworld. Then there would follow discovery by sapient Solids, diaspora, and a few bouts of genocide where any large concentrations of goo encountered by Solids would be ruthlessly destroyed. And then the slow ascent to power - and only at the conclusion of that would the Founders be able to gather together again, this time on hideout worlds where they themselves were the only thing around.

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Old March 27 2013, 08:16 PM   #19
JirinPanthosa
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Re: How does Changeling society operate?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Why would Odo bring greater compassion to the Great Link? He's not particularly compassionate. He's not really much different from the rest of the changelings, in fact. He seeks "justice", which isn't much different from the changeling-wide desire for order, in fact, it's pretty much the same thing. Odo wants "Justice", but only justice that he sees as such. If there's any exchange of views, it would be that Odo would end up being overwhelmed by the Great Link's view of Solids. It is far more likely that Odo would come around to their way of thinking, rather than bringing them to his way.
I don't think Odo would make Changeling society more compassionate, but his knowledge of the Federation would convince them that they will not try to destroy or enslave them, and that at least some in the Federation are caring and respectful toward changelings who aren't trying to enslave them.

"The Federation has many flaws but a desire for conquest is not one of them", he convinced the female changeling of that and I think he then convinced the rest of the link. And Odo believes in strict order, but he's also very anti-expansionist and believes in the right of the harmless to be left alone. I don't think he'll convince the rest of the link of that, but it might wear down their idea that any solid they don't directly control is going to come murder them.

There is also the fact that after the Founders tried to enslave their entire quadrant and murdered billions, the Federation made no attempt to prevent Odo from delivering the cure back to the Founders, which probably gave the Founders tremendous reason not to fear a revenge strike if they leave the AQ alone.
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Old March 27 2013, 08:24 PM   #20
Timo
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Re: How does Changeling society operate?

Then again, the "good" qualities of the Federation also mean the UFP will be a safe haven for forces bent on destroying the Founders. It fosters belief in the value of personal and communal freedom, which is the antithesis of the one and only Founder means of keeping anti-Founder sentiments at bay. It also currently stands as an inspiration for anybody who wants to oppose the Dominion by force of arms. For this double message of "resistance is not futile", the UFP simply must be defeated and enslaved, now more than ever.

Thanks to Odo, the Founders might feel sorry for having to do this, but that doesn't change the necessity of the act.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old March 27 2013, 08:26 PM   #21
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Re: How does Changeling society operate?

The whole of Changeling society in DS9 kinda reminds me of King Triton in Disneys The Little Mermaid. He was all HUMANS ARE EVIL to Ariel until the end of the movie when Eric skewered Ursula and saved the sea. I like to think Odo brought in some fresh perspective.

(Rene was the voice of the chef btw. You do get to hear a hint of the Odo voice when Sebastian first pinches his nose! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knelij2uACs )
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Old March 28 2013, 10:28 PM   #22
Worf'sParmach
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Re: How does Changeling society operate?

Timo wrote: View Post
The ability to mimic not only people but technology to perfection would probably allow Changeling individuals to rule worlds the way vampires and other clever immortals gain world dominance in mainstream fantasy writing. All it takes is a bit of patience, a bit of sense of drama, and a string of really mysterious deaths...
That's a good point. Changelings wouldn't need their own "stuff," they can aquire it pretty easily from others. They seem to do the most damage when they are quietly infiltrating.
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