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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old March 20 2013, 08:29 PM   #1
Cadet49
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Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

In Star Trek 09, Spock Prime is startled that Kirk is not the captain of the Enterprise yet. Spock Prime expects Kirk to already be the captain, though it is obvious from his appearance that he is much younger than he was in TOS, so even if Spock isn't quite sure of the date, he would at least recognize Kirk's youth, we can assume... and the film is canon, unlike those earlier works (novels, comics, etc.). Could this means Kirk assumed command of the Enterprise in the prime universe much younger that originally portrayed in other fiction sources, and several years prior to the 5 year mission? Perhaps he assumed command shortly after the Farragut incident of 2257, for some reason?

The film also establishes that in the Prime Universe, Kirk's dad lived to watch him become Captain of the Enterprise, which also contradicts the earlier novels.
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Old March 20 2013, 09:16 PM   #2
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

Bear in mind Spock Prime is very shocked, bewildered, and probably depressed at this time. (This is the only way I can ever rationalize why he stayed in the cave when he knew of the Starfleet outpost. Did he intend to die there?) Since he had known Kirk's only service on the Enterprise was its captain, it would logical to think he's captain in this universe, regardless of his age. After all, Spock Prime doesn't know yet how different this timeline really is, and how much it changed Kirk.

Kirk's appearance and information about what was going on seemed to perk Spock Prime up and allowed him to gather his wits about him and motivate him to try to set things as right as he could make them. That is, get Kirk back on the Enterprise and trust his friend would know what to do.
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Last edited by Franklin; March 20 2013 at 09:32 PM.
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Old March 20 2013, 09:17 PM   #3
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

I say he simply didn't know the exact year until he began the mind meld with Kirk. People don't look that different between ages 25 and 34. Certainly Chris Pine won't look like 1960's William Shatner any time soon.

As for when Kirk Prime became a captain, the old DC Comics Trek suggested that he commanded the USS Saladin for years prior to becoming captain of the Enterprise.
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Old March 20 2013, 09:43 PM   #4
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

Franklin wrote: View Post
Bear in mind Spock Prime is very shocked, bewildered, and probably depressed at this time.
This. They guy had just watched his planet implode, and then a much younger version of Kirk comes in, a guy who he hasn't seen in decades. Plus he''s wearing a pile of cold weather clothing, so it would probably be very difficult to determine how old Kirk was at that moment.
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Old March 20 2013, 09:53 PM   #5
The Wormhole
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

Remember, Spock Prime makes this comment after Kirk says he was booted off the Enterprise for mutiny. I assumed Spock is simply expressing surprise that he is in command of the Enterprise and that Kirk is serving under him.
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Old March 20 2013, 10:04 PM   #6
FlapJoy
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

Did Kirk ever serve aboard the Enterprise as anything other than Captain in the original continuity? Because, in Spock's perspective, Kirk was always the Captain of the Enterprise, never serving a lesser post as far as he knew. So if Kirk is serving on 1701 then it must be as her Captain in Spock's mind, but if he's been ejected from the ship by it's Captain, then what is Kirk's position?
So Spock is confused but is making the realization that time has indeed been altered.
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Old March 21 2013, 03:41 PM   #7
sonak
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

FlapJoy wrote: View Post
Did Kirk ever serve aboard the Enterprise as anything other than Captain in the original continuity? Because, in Spock's perspective, Kirk was always the Captain of the Enterprise, never serving a lesser post as far as he knew. So if Kirk is serving on 1701 then it must be as her Captain in Spock's mind, but if he's been ejected from the ship by it's Captain, then what is Kirk's position?
So Spock is confused but is making the realization that time has indeed been altered.

yep, that's my interpretation as well.
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Old March 26 2013, 05:23 AM   #8
golddragon71
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

FlapJoy wrote: View Post
Did Kirk ever serve aboard the Enterprise as anything other than Captain in the original continuity? Because, in Spock's perspective, Kirk was always the Captain of the Enterprise, never serving a lesser post as far as he knew. So if Kirk is serving on 1701 then it must be as her Captain in Spock's mind, but if he's been ejected from the ship by it's Captain, then what is Kirk's position?
So Spock is confused but is making the realization that time has indeed been altered.
Spock Prime served as Science Officer* on the Enterprise for eleven years under Christopher Pike before Jim Kirk was granted command of the ship following the disaster at Ghioghe.

The thing that gets me isn't so much Spock's surprise to learn Kirk's not the Captain (or that Pike is alive and moderately well!)
but rather, that Young Jim Kirk would
A. Know of his existence in the first place...
B. Know to look for him.

*Spock was not First Officer under Pike, that job Fell to the mysterious Female Helm officer known as Number One
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Old March 26 2013, 05:46 AM   #9
Nerys Myk
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

golddragon71 wrote: View Post
FlapJoy wrote: View Post
Did Kirk ever serve aboard the Enterprise as anything other than Captain in the original continuity? Because, in Spock's perspective, Kirk was always the Captain of the Enterprise, never serving a lesser post as far as he knew. So if Kirk is serving on 1701 then it must be as her Captain in Spock's mind, but if he's been ejected from the ship by it's Captain, then what is Kirk's position?
So Spock is confused but is making the realization that time has indeed been altered.
Spock Prime served as Science Officer* on the Enterprise for eleven years under Christopher Pike before Jim Kirk was granted command of the ship following the disaster at Ghioghe.

The thing that gets me isn't so much Spock's surprise to learn Kirk's not the Captain (or that Pike is alive and moderately well!)
but rather, that Young Jim Kirk would
A. Know of his existence in the first place...
B. Know to look for him.

*Spock was not First Officer under Pike, that job Fell to the mysterious Female Helm officer known as Number One
Spock seems surprised to see Kirk. ( well as surprised as Spock gets.) He's just as confused as you are about how Kirk could know of his existence and be looking for him. He probably not sure of the exact date either.

ST09 wrote:
SPOCK PRIME: James T. Kirk.
KIRK: Excuse me?
SPOCK PRIME: How did you find me?
KIRK: How do you know my name?
SPOCK PRIME: I have been, and always shall be, your friend.
KIRK: Wha... oh, look... uh, I don't know you.
SPOCK PRIME: I am Spock.
KIRK: Bullshit.
(some time later, they are around a fire)
SPOCK PRIME: It is remarkably pleasing to see you again, old friend. Especially after the events of today.
KIRK: Uh, sir I appreciate what you did for me today, but, but if you were Spock you would know we're not friends at all. You hate me, you marooned me here for mutiny.
SPOCK PRIME: Mutiny?
KIRK: Yes.
SPOCK PRIME: You are not the Captain?
KIRK: No, no. Umm... you're the Captain. Pike was taken hostage.
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Old March 26 2013, 11:49 AM   #10
Joby
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

King Daniel wrote: View Post
I say he simply didn't know the exact year until he began the mind meld with Kirk. People don't look that different between ages 25 and 34. Certainly Chris Pine won't look like 1960's William Shatner any time soon.

As for when Kirk Prime became a captain, the old DC Comics Trek suggested that he commanded the USS Saladin for years prior to becoming captain of the Enterprise.

I think Spock was more confused then anything else. I think some people can look pretty different from mid 20s to early or mid 30s though. Not everyone, but I've known people that still look kids when they were around 25, only to look terrible by the time they hit 30. Terrible for age 30 that is and looking more 45 or something. i.e., wrinkled up, balding, fat,....
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Old March 26 2013, 12:41 PM   #11
Marten
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

I figured that Spock simply knew the Enterprise would work best with Kirk in command and Spock as first officer, and tried to make that happen.
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Old March 26 2013, 03:18 PM   #12
Gojira
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

It is possible Spock recognized Kirk as being younger than when he was Captain, but I think he was just simply more confused about learning that he was aboard the Enterprise and not the Captain.

I thought Spock would be more confused about learning that Kirk and Pike were on the Enterprise at the same time.
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Old March 26 2013, 05:15 PM   #13
wissaboo
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

I don't know about you, but the older I get the harder it is to tell how old anyone younger than me is. I'm assuming that will continue to get worse. And Spock is older than I'll ever get so I'm guessing that is the problem.
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Old March 26 2013, 05:32 PM   #14
Gojira
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

wissaboo wrote: View Post
I don't know about you, but the older I get the harder it is to tell how old anyone younger than me is. I'm assuming that will continue to get worse. And Spock is older than I'll ever get so I'm guessing that is the problem.
I will be 50 in a few months and all people in their 20s look the same age.
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Old March 26 2013, 06:08 PM   #15
Pavonis
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Re: Spock Prime: "You are not the captain?" line

All people in their twenties look the same to everyone, even to other people who are in their twenties.
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