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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old April 2 2013, 07:03 AM   #31
Saito S
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Re: Deep Space Nine Revisited: A New Perspective

teacake wrote: View Post
TrekDoggyDog wrote: View Post

- DS9 was filled with a surprising LACK of alpha male machismo.
And this is bad?
Apparently! Who knew?

Dog, your criticisms are less "nit picky" and more "massively offensive and frighteningly shallow".

TrekDoggyDog wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
Wow, completely disagree with every one of those. They seem like some very shallow criticisms, and I don't quite get the obsession with masculinity and people's appearances throughout...
Feel free to disagree, but it'd make your argument a bit more plausible with a little substance rather than emotion
Yeah, cause this
TrekDoggyDog wrote: View Post
- It took Kira like 4 seasons to stop being a lesbian.
is a very "plausible" () argument with lots of substance.
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Old April 2 2013, 01:52 PM   #32
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Re: Deep Space Nine Revisited: A New Perspective

TrekDoggyDog wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
Wow, completely disagree with every one of those. They seem like some very shallow criticisms, and I don't quite get the obsession with masculinity and people's appearances throughout...
Feel free to disagree, but it'd make your argument a bit more plausible with a little substance rather than emotion
What argument? He disagrees with you...isn't that all that needs to be said?
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Old April 2 2013, 08:26 PM   #33
Shanndee
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Re: Deep Space Nine Revisited: A New Perspective

teacake wrote: View Post
TrekDoggyDog wrote: View Post

- DS9 was filled with a surprising LACK of alpha male machismo.
And this is bad?
No kidding! I had hoped that everyone was aware that chest thumping garbage was passe. I guess not!

That's ok though. I get a great laugh whenever someone chooses to put it on diplay!
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Old April 2 2013, 09:47 PM   #34
davejames
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Re: Deep Space Nine Revisited: A New Perspective

So is anybody else having the same problem I am with the Bashir in their rewatch?

Knowing now that he's genetically enhanced with a massive IQ, I just can't watch anything he does in those early episodes without wondering if he's being sincere, or simply putting on a show to hide the truth. Especially in episodes like "Past Prologue", where he's bounding around like an exciteable, naive little kid and telling everyone about Garak. Or when he's acting nervous about the Klingons and every other little thing that happens.

As much as I loved "Doctor Bashir, I Presume" and it's big revelation, I definitely understand now why Siddig was so angry about it-- because it just doesn't match up at all with how he was playing the character before.
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Old April 3 2013, 02:12 AM   #35
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Re: Deep Space Nine Revisited: A New Perspective

No, I always feel like that Bashir is downplaying his true self so that no one will ever expect that he is genetically enhanced
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Old April 3 2013, 03:54 AM   #36
Saito S
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Re: Deep Space Nine Revisited: A New Perspective

Shanndee wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
TrekDoggyDog wrote: View Post

- DS9 was filled with a surprising LACK of alpha male machismo.
And this is bad?
No kidding! I had hoped that everyone was aware that chest thumping garbage was passe. I guess not!

That's ok though. I get a great laugh whenever someone chooses to put it on diplay!
Especially in regards to a TV show. I mean... why would this even MATTER? Before this thread, I would never have even conceived of the notion that ANYONE holds the amount of "alpha male machismo" present as being of even slightly important when evaluating a Trek series.

davejames wrote: View Post
So is anybody else having the same problem I am with the Bashir in their rewatch?

Knowing now that he's genetically enhanced with a massive IQ, I just can't watch anything he does in those early episodes without wondering if he's being sincere, or simply putting on a show to hide the truth. Especially in episodes like "Past Prologue", where he's bounding around like an exciteable, naive little kid and telling everyone about Garak. Or when he's acting nervous about the Klingons and every other little thing that happens.
I dunno... are those things really necessarily out of character for a genetically engineered guy in the first place? Those are personality traits. Just because he's got a monster intellect, doesn't mean he can't be a bit wowed by his first assignment, a bit overexcited at meeting a real-life spy, etc. He's got exceptional reflexes and is highly intelligent, but you can't genetically engineer common sense, maturity, or general personality traits. I think that, combined with:

Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
No, I always feel like that Bashir is downplaying his true self so that no one will ever expect that he is genetically enhanced
this, to the degree that it would have been necessary, covers it pretty well.
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Old April 3 2013, 04:04 AM   #37
Melakon
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Re: Deep Space Nine Revisited: A New Perspective

Saito S wrote: View Post
Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
No, I always feel like that Bashir is downplaying his true self so that no one will ever expect that he is genetically enhanced
this, to the degree that it would have been necessary, covers it pretty well.
It could be interpreted to explain some of Bashir's awkward pauses and "Umm..." moments.
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Old April 3 2013, 07:54 PM   #38
davejames
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Re: Deep Space Nine Revisited: A New Perspective

Saito S wrote: View Post
I dunno... are those things really necessarily out of character for a genetically engineered guy in the first place? Those are personality traits. Just because he's got a monster intellect, doesn't mean he can't be a bit wowed by his first assignment, a bit overexcited at meeting a real-life spy, etc. He's got exceptional reflexes and is highly intelligent, but you can't genetically engineer common sense, maturity, or general personality traits. I think that, combined with:

Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
No, I always feel like that Bashir is downplaying his true self so that no one will ever expect that he is genetically enhanced
this, to the degree that it would have been necessary, covers it pretty well.
I suppose, but it seemed before that those traits were rooted in a genuine naivety about the world around him. And you would think having a monster intellect would bring with it a greater sense of maturity and confidence as well.

At least to where you're not continuing to act like a little kid at every new thing you encounter.
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Old April 4 2013, 02:30 AM   #39
Saito S
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Re: Deep Space Nine Revisited: A New Perspective

davejames wrote: View Post
Saito S wrote: View Post
I dunno... are those things really necessarily out of character for a genetically engineered guy in the first place? Those are personality traits. Just because he's got a monster intellect, doesn't mean he can't be a bit wowed by his first assignment, a bit overexcited at meeting a real-life spy, etc. He's got exceptional reflexes and is highly intelligent, but you can't genetically engineer common sense, maturity, or general personality traits. I think that, combined with:

Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
No, I always feel like that Bashir is downplaying his true self so that no one will ever expect that he is genetically enhanced
this, to the degree that it would have been necessary, covers it pretty well.
I suppose, but it seemed before that those traits were rooted in a genuine naivety about the world around him. And you would think having a monster intellect would bring with it a greater sense of maturity and confidence as well.

At least to where you're not continuing to act like a little kid at every new thing you encounter.
I agree that - even if his basic personality drove some of that initial "boyish wonder" genuinely - having the monster intellect would probably cause it to recede more quickly. That it didn't is the second part coming into play: some of it was intentional, especially as time went on, because he knew he had to tone it down gradually, so as not to undergo a very noticeable, sudden behavioral shift that might be questioned.
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Old April 4 2013, 01:32 PM   #40
Enterpriserules
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Re: Deep Space Nine Revisited: A New Perspective

Saito S wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
Saito S wrote: View Post
I dunno... are those things really necessarily out of character for a genetically engineered guy in the first place? Those are personality traits. Just because he's got a monster intellect, doesn't mean he can't be a bit wowed by his first assignment, a bit overexcited at meeting a real-life spy, etc. He's got exceptional reflexes and is highly intelligent, but you can't genetically engineer common sense, maturity, or general personality traits. I think that, combined with:


this, to the degree that it would have been necessary, covers it pretty well.
I suppose, but it seemed before that those traits were rooted in a genuine naivety about the world around him. And you would think having a monster intellect would bring with it a greater sense of maturity and confidence as well.

At least to where you're not continuing to act like a little kid at every new thing you encounter.
I agree that - even if his basic personality drove some of that initial "boyish wonder" genuinely - having the monster intellect would probably cause it to recede more quickly. That it didn't is the second part coming into play: some of it was intentional, especially as time went on, because he knew he had to tone it down gradually, so as not to undergo a very noticeable, sudden behavioral shift that might be questioned.
Exactly, he is a genetically engineered genius
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