RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,183
Posts: 5,435,870
Members: 24,947
Currently online: 651
Newest member: CaptainJaymez

TrekToday headlines

Trek Screenwriter Washington D.C. Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Oct 23

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 18 2013, 02:55 PM   #91
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Apologies if it's already been posted in this thread, but this interview with FJ's daughter Karen Dick is extremely enlightening, especially Q19 with regards to Gene Roddenberry's falling out with FJ, and why Mike Okuda's manuals deliberately contradicted the original Technical Manual and Enterprise blueprints.

http://www.trekplace.com/fj-kdint01.html
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 18 2013, 03:16 PM   #92
Lenny Nurdbol
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: New Jersey, with the Jersey Devil...
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Maybe this thread should be renamed "Let's Bash Franz Joseph."
I just came off of a "Let's Bash James Dixon" one.

Funny how first generation Treknical fans and fandom gets the finger around here.

Dare criticize someone like Michael "4747 Anime" Okuda and that's heresy.

I've studied the FJ blueprints and virtually everything that FJ did was done for a reason, whether to make the interior sets fit the exterior model or to make the starship realistically liveable as a "city in space." The things which are nitpicked were choices to be made, usually between two contrasts. For instance, Sickbay Is located on Deck 7 according to some episodes--but not according to others. Kirk's quarters is located on Deck 5--according to some episodes but not according to others (notably the earlier ones which give Deck 12, and no matter how you number the decks, up or down, there's no way you can fit Kirk's cabin onto Deck 12!). Other things like a photon torpedo bank in the upper primary hull--were put there by Matt Jeffries in his sketches. All in all the FJ blueprints are a combination of the different miniatures of the Enterprise fused together to make one set of blueprints. This was the best approach he could come up with for a single set of plans. For instance, he has 4 dual impulse engines as opposed to 2: those 4 are seen on aft shots of the model used in the pilot episodes only. If you want to geek-out you can do what 80s fans did and subdivide it up into Constitution, Bonhomme Richard, and Achernar classes/upgrades.

FJ's blueprints were fully authorized and approved of by Gene Roddenberry. They appeared in the Smithsonian, were runaway best-sellers, and appeared in various graphics in the first three Trek movies. They spawned many, many spinoff booklets of general plans. In a word, they Invented Treknical Fandom. A generation of Trek authors alone were also inspired by them and used them in their novels.

Bottom line: I have no problem with them as depicting the Enterprise's final configuration before ST-TMP. I have not seen better deck plans anywhere beyond some rather glittery and overly colorful "fanboy" works which tend to rely too much on high resolution graphics, fonts, and colors than logically form a working and plausible interior layout that's not only consistent with TOS episodes but with functionality. There's no reason to reject them unless you're a revisionist who insists on "reverse engineering" say 1701-D into 1701 or NX-01 into 1701. Considering the changes in technology between eras, that route is best not taken. IMHO, FJ's prints are definitive, so that's a moot point.
Lenny Nurdbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19 2013, 02:37 AM   #93
ZapBrannigan
Fleet Captain
 
ZapBrannigan's Avatar
 
Location: New York State
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Maybe this thread should be renamed "Let's Bash Franz Joseph."
I just came off of a "Let's Bash James Dixon" one.

Funny how first generation Treknical fans and fandom gets the finger around here.
It must be a generational thing in many cases. I was an avid fan from the early 1970s on, and for a while there, all my technical dreams and visions rested on The Making of Star Trek, the FJ material, and my own personal sketches.

You could see at the time that FJ's drawings were not a perfect match for the show, but they were vivid and engrossing. Now they have huge sentimental value. You can still look at his Blueprints and walk the ship in your mind.
ZapBrannigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19 2013, 03:12 AM   #94
FalTorPan
Vice Admiral
 
FalTorPan's Avatar
 
Location: Out there... thataway.
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

As I said earlier in this thread, I don't believe in any "definitive" layout of any Trek ship, because a fictitious ship like the beloved TOS-era Enterprise only "really" exists in the viewer's imagination, and no two imaginations are alike.

I'm continually impressed by how many alternative layouts are conjured up for the Big E, most of which are based on reasonable assumptions and with reasonable design goals.

Even in the TNG era, the Enterprise-D has had at least three "official" (or in Whitefire's case, almost "official") layouts: Whitefire's, Sternbach's as published in the 1990s and Sternbach's more recent effort as part of a project for Japan that was never fully released.

Franz Joseph's drawings predate all the hullabaloo about "canon." They were based on a set of assumptions that would almost certainly not be used today, but that makes them no less valid on their own merits.

I love 'em. Others love 'em. Some don't. No biggie.
__________________
Watch ASTRONUTS! Visit Trekplace! Check out my personal website!
FalTorPan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19 2013, 04:57 AM   #95
DCR
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Wentworth Hall, Tellus of Sol
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

I'm of the right age that I had the Technical Manual in around 1977 when I was about 13-14 and it was just about the only thing available for any Trek fan. So needless to say, it's pretty foundational to my view and understanding of Trek. I know it's not canon by any means, but it's the source of many of the ideas that I'd held for a decade before TNG came out, and so I always give it the respect it deserves for the influence it had on my appreciation of Trek.

It also doesn't hurt that I played a lot of SFB in the 90's, which drew heavily on the Technical Manual.

Even with its inaccuracies, I'll always have a soft spot for it because of how important it was to my development. It helped fuel my love of Trek.
DCR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19 2013, 03:20 PM   #96
Mutoid
Fleet Captain
 
Mutoid's Avatar
 
Location: CommishSleer
View Mutoid's Twitter Profile
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

I use the uniform patterns in the manual.
I wonder if Franz Joseph made them up himself or asked the costume designers
Mutoid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19 2013, 03:34 PM   #97
Spocktoberfest
Captain
 
Spocktoberfest's Avatar
 
Location: Marsden is celebrating Vulcanian Style!
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

This is where I really think "canon" in not really worth it. I understand attmepts to say this is mainline and this is fringe information, after all, all of the books, comic books and other stories can't really fit into one life time. Captain Kirk's 5 year mission would take about 50 years to have it all. But, how many "authorized" books at the time said one thing and were then de authorized afterward, after they sold quite bit, simply on the whim or needs of the current project? So as far as FJs Blueprints, I consider them absolutely fine as they are. In my opinion of course.

__________________
Captain, logic dictates we get drunker than a Denebian slime devil
Spocktoberfest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 19 2013, 07:30 PM   #98
Lenny Nurdbol
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: New Jersey, with the Jersey Devil...
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Much has already been written about it, but let me just say straight out that Franz Joseph's influence on the first few Star Trek films cannot be underestimated, despite the fact that he had nothing directly to do with those films!

Various deck plans and graphics of FJ's appear on bridge monitors... I think that alone in some way gives some validity to them...but it doesn't end there of course... There's much, much more... Background dialogue of "matrix restoration coils"and such heard in the first two films is straight from the Technical Manual... Admiral Kirk's travel pod shuttle in ST II has numerous plaques mounted on its interior bulkhead walls which are reproductions of the Flags and Seals of Federation worlds from the Technical Manual... The now very visible phaser bank emplacements on the movie Enterprise's hull are clearly derived from his blueprints' ball-and-socket styled phaser banks in the Booklet of General Plans... When we see turbolifts moving through the vertical shafts their outlines with their curiously curved upper and lower sections are straight out of the FJ cutaway of the Enterprise in his blueprints...
When we are first introduced to Epsilon 9 in ST-TMP we hear subspace radio chatter about the starships Columbia, Revere, and Entente--their names And their stated NCC registries and types come straight out of the Technical Manual! The UFP Seal in San Francisco in the first film is clearly derived from FJ's UFP Seal...
In ST IV there's another shot of San Francisco and on a building is not only a UFP seal but the Same UFP seal that FJ designed for the Technical Manual (and it is in fact right on the center of the cover of the original issue of the manual!).

I guess you have to be a real fan of the nuts and bolts components of the Trek mythos to truly appreciate it all though...
Lenny Nurdbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 01:34 AM   #99
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

The Ball and socket phasers are in Matt Jefferies drawings in The Making of Star Trek which far predate the FJ plans.

The turbolift map in the refit is based on Jefferies outlines for the Phase 2 model. Or are you referring to something else?
__________________
* * *
"The road to hell is paved with works-in-progress."
—Philip Roth
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 01:59 AM   #100
Elvira
Vice Admiral
 
Elvira's Avatar
 
Location: t'girl
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Maybe this thread should be renamed "Let's Bash Franz Joseph."
Trekkie fan: "Leave Franz Joseph ALONE !!!!"




__________________
.
no mere mortal can resist the evil of the thriller
Elvira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 03:19 AM   #101
Lenny Nurdbol
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: New Jersey, with the Jersey Devil...
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Maurice wrote: View Post
The Ball and socket phasers are in Matt Jefferies drawings in The Making of Star Trek which far predate the FJ plans.

The turbolift map in the refit is based on Jefferies outlines for the Phase 2 model. Or are you referring to something else?
Funny, I didn't see the ball and socket phasers in any of Matt Jefferies drawings, considering that not one was ever used on any Enterprise miniature from TOS (the beams were just haphazardly animated-in whenever required)... Though there was a throwaway phaser bank drawing glimpsed on a monitor Scotty was staring at in "The Trouble With Tribbles" but Jefferies probably didn't draw that, and it certainly didn't look like any phaser bank I'd seen...

I'm not talking about the turbolift map but the outlines of the individual turbolift cars themselves depicted in the FJ blueprints (Specifically: Inboard Profile Sheet 5 of 12) and they've more or less been of that design ever since... The original U.S.S. Enterprise Officers Manual (the Original, as in black spiral bound, not one of the later bastardized ripoffs) blueprints one specifically... They're cylinders with top and bottom bubbles (respectively housing parachute and descent engines for when they're deployed as escape pods--the Real "life boats" in use on the pre-refit Enterprise)...
Lenny Nurdbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 06:19 AM   #102
Creepy Critter
Admiral
 
Creepy Critter's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Ball-and-socket phaser banks are clearly visible in the port and forward elevations of the Enterprise printed in The Making of Star Trek, although not in the same places that FJ put them. They're on the front underside of the saucer, but higher up and more widely spaced. Are these drawings by Jefferies?
__________________
CorporalCaptain
Creepy Critter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 08:51 AM   #103
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
The Ball and socket phasers are in Matt Jefferies drawings in The Making of Star Trek which far predate the FJ plans.

The turbolift map in the refit is based on Jefferies outlines for the Phase 2 model. Or are you referring to something else?
Funny, I didn't see the ball and socket phasers in any of Matt Jefferies drawings...
Image. They are very widely spaced, however.
__________________
* * *
"The road to hell is paved with works-in-progress."
—Philip Roth
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 04:15 PM   #104
Lenny Nurdbol
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: New Jersey, with the Jersey Devil...
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Maurice wrote: View Post
Lenny Nurdbol wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
The Ball and socket phasers are in Matt Jefferies drawings in The Making of Star Trek which far predate the FJ plans.

The turbolift map in the refit is based on Jefferies outlines for the Phase 2 model. Or are you referring to something else?
Funny, I didn't see the ball and socket phasers in any of Matt Jefferies drawings...
Image. They are very widely spaced, however.
Sorry, I just don't see it.
Lenny Nurdbol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20 2013, 05:31 PM   #105
Boo! Did I Scare Ya?
Admiral
 
Boo! Did I Scare Ya?'s Avatar
 
Location: bbailey861 - Kingston, ON
Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

To everyone who has posted links to various interviews, fanzines, etc. etc., thank you. They are a great look at the past and offer a good amount of insight. Thanks again.
Boo! Did I Scare Ya? is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
blueprint, bridge, franz joseph, plans

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:57 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.