Nogs decision to join Starfleet.

WesleysDisciple · February 21 2013, 04:35 PM

I have a variety of issues.

Any idea what the reason on the scriptwriters part was?

was it to make him a more central aspect of the show.

or did they want to write him out for a season or two.

He does, obviously appear almost every episode after he comes back to DS9 and becomes Jakes Roommate.

Beyond that it said a letter of refrence from a "Command level officer" is needed.

What, for the sake of refrence, is a command level officer.

Someone commander and above, a Redshirt?

Ideas how most people find a command level officer to sponsor them, or is the policy MEANT to exclude those not allready chummy with such a individual.

Like say Ro Larren probaly didnt meet a starfleet officer till she fled her homeworld.

Sigokat · February 21 2013, 04:46 PM

I could be totally wrong, but the way I saw it was that Nog needed that command level letter because he was not a Federation citizen. At least I assume Ferengnar is not part of the UFP, like I said, I could be wrong though.

As for Command level officer, I see that as an officer that has been in command of either a vessel or, as in Sisko's case, a space station. I'm sure its restricted a a certain rank as well, so like in the US Army's case, a Captain (O-3) can be a company commander, but Nog would need a letter from at least a Leuitenant Colonel (O-5) Battalion Commander or higher.

So its the position that is more important than the rank, even though rank plays a factor as well.

Pavonis · February 21 2013, 05:29 PM

WesleysDisciple wrote:

Beyond that it said a letter of refrence from a "Command level officer" is needed.

What, for the sake of refrence, is a command level officer.

Someone commander and above, a Redshirt?

A command level officer would be someone qualified for command. Specifics of experience aren't known. For instance, could Riker or Data write a letter of reference? Apparently Sisko, as the highest ranking officer in the Bajor system, was the local go-to guy for these letters. But that doesn't tell us much.

Ideas how most people find a command level officer to sponsor them, or is the policy MEANT to exclude those not allready chummy with such a individual.

Like say Ro Larren probaly didnt meet a starfleet officer till she fled her homeworld.

I doubt it was meant to exclude people. I'm sure one could contact Starfleet and discuss joining the service without having to be best friends with a command-level officer's son.

Sindatur · February 21 2013, 06:12 PM

Having to obtain the letter wasn't exlcusionary, it was actually inclusive.

Non-Federation Citizens were already excluded by nature of being non-Federation. The letter from a Command Officer was a way in for a Non-Federation Citizen

WesleysDisciple · February 21 2013, 06:58 PM

meaning how DIFFICLT is it to obtain such a letter, since some people will have an easier time knowing a command level officer.

One possiblety, for Ro?

Maybe some of the larger Refugee camps (the ones outside of cardassian space) Have at least one federation diplomat, who will grant anyone whos grades seem to suggest they'd make a canidate

Yes I think a senior federation government official while not mentioned by sisko, would probaly carry the same official weight.

Pavonis · February 21 2013, 07:19 PM

How difficult it is to get a letter probably depends on how determined the applicant-to-be is to get into Starfleet.

Sisko wasn't sure Nog's desire to get into Starfleet was real, so wasn't inclined to write a letter to support his application. After getting to the heart of Nog's motivation, he wrote the letter. Of course, the letter didn't get Nog into the Academy. It seems to have allowed him to take the entrance exam. He wouldn't get in without passing the entrance exam, no matter who wrote the letter.

As for Ro, we really don't know much about her backstory. Once she was out of Cardassian-controlled space, she could end up on Earth as easily as anywhere else, and possibly just ended up networking with the right people.

Ensign_Redshirt · February 21 2013, 08:42 PM

It was an interesting twist to have Nog (instead of Jake) wanting to join Starfleet.

C.E. Evans · February 21 2013, 09:18 PM

Ensign_Redshirt wrote:

It was an interesting twist to have Nog (instead of Jake) wanting to join Starfleet.

This.

It would have been real easy for them to have Jake follow in his father's footsteps, instead they went a different route and went with the least likely person--a Ferengi.

Worf'sParmach · February 21 2013, 09:27 PM

Ensign_Redshirt wrote:

It was an interesting twist to have Nog (instead of Jake) wanting to join Starfleet.

This. I thought it was an excellent move, especially how Sisko started out feeling Nog was just a bad influence on Jake. It would have been too predictable to have Jake do it. It definitely kept Jake from being Wesley Crusher Jr. (not that he was really on that path anyway) and though having Jake not go to Starfleet was a unique way to go, it also make him kind of useless on a show about Starfleet Officers.

Timo · February 21 2013, 10:43 PM

The fun thing is, we already heard of this "endorsement needed for getting to the Academy" all the way back in TOS "The Apple". There, it was said that James T. Kirk had gotten it himself, from the father of Ensign Mallory.

Should we perhaps deduce that Kirk wasn't a Federation citizen back then? Despite him supposedly being born on Earth, in Iowa, this could well be possible - his childhood involved an episode on Tarsus IV, an isolated and seemingly isolationist colony where little Jim's parents are conspicuously absent. All sorts of backstories could be spun from that.

Of course, Jim could have been endorsed even if he didn't need to. But Kirk seems to think the role of Daddy Mallory was important in Kirk getting to the Academy.

Timo Saloniemi

C.E. Evans · February 21 2013, 11:03 PM

I thought everyone who entered the Academy had to have a letter of endorsement, similar to how cadets in the US Naval Academy had to (they can get an endorsement from multiple government sources).

Pavonis · February 21 2013, 11:14 PM

Perhaps the letters have to have different content? Maybe a letter for a non-Federate needs to outline the advantages of allowing the candidate to apply to the Academy?

t_smitts · March 4 2013, 08:27 AM

It's been a long time since I've seen "The Apple", but my memory was that it was simply said the elder Mallory helped Kirk get into the Academy without specifying what he did to help Kirk. It may have been a case of tutoring him to prepare for the entrance exam, or securing him one of those testing spots Wesley got in "Coming of Age".

The Bajorans and Ferengi have explicitly said to not be Fed worlds, for those questioning the matter. In the case of Ro, Sito, and the various other Bajorans said to be in Starfleet, they likely escaped Bajor or came from a refugee settlement and made contact with some Starfleet officer at some point.

Nog joining Starfleet was a terrific idea. It permitted him to be part of almost all war-related stories, and ironically, it seemed like he had more to do than Jake most of the time. From what I've heard Aron Eisenberg didn't think it was such a great idea at first, but just as with Rene Auberjonois and the notion of Odo finding his people, he came to see it was a great development. Honestly, it's hard now for me to imagine a time when Nog wasn't an officer.

Infern0 · March 4 2013, 09:48 AM

I would assume he needed the letter because, lets face it on paper he was not officer material.

Don't forget, there is an entire underclass of NCO's in starfleet who do not go to the academy, which is essentially a military university.

Nog was a non federation citizen with a criminal record who barely even went to school, frankly even with Siskos letter he would have been incredibly lucky to get in.

Deckerd · March 4 2013, 12:20 PM

It seems to me that the officer recruitment would be looking for potential rather than academic achievement. Since Nog was nothing if not extremely bright, this would have been recognised. I agree with everyone who said this was an excellent plot device, especially since he had both the skepticism of regular Starfleet plus the horror of his own family to contend with.

Of course it was started all the way back with Worf and reminds me a bit of Terry Pratchett's Watch, where the police force are the first to recruit all the types of people that nobody else had ever considered employable.

February 21 2013, 04:35 PM	#1
WesleysDisciple Lieutenant Commander	Nogs decision to join Starfleet. I have a variety of issues. Any idea what the reason on the scriptwriters part was? was it to make him a more central aspect of the show. or did they want to write him out for a season or two. He does, obviously appear almost every episode after he comes back to DS9 and becomes Jakes Roommate. Beyond that it said a letter of refrence from a "Command level officer" is needed. What, for the sake of refrence, is a command level officer. Someone commander and above, a Redshirt? Ideas how most people find a command level officer to sponsor them, or is the policy MEANT to exclude those not allready chummy with such a individual. Like say Ro Larren probaly didnt meet a starfleet officer till she fled her homeworld.

February 21 2013, 04:46 PM	#2
Sigokat Commander Location: Fort Bragg, NC but from Chicago (currently deployed)	Re: Nogs decision to join Starfleet. I could be totally wrong, but the way I saw it was that Nog needed that command level letter because he was not a Federation citizen. At least I assume Ferengnar is not part of the UFP, like I said, I could be wrong though. As for Command level officer, I see that as an officer that has been in command of either a vessel or, as in Sisko's case, a space station. I'm sure its restricted a a certain rank as well, so like in the US Army's case, a Captain (O-3) can be a company commander, but Nog would need a letter from at least a Leuitenant Colonel (O-5) Battalion Commander or higher. So its the position that is more important than the rank, even though rank plays a factor as well.

February 21 2013, 06:12 PM	#4
Sindatur Rear Admiral Location: Sacramento, CA	Re: Nogs decision to join Starfleet. Having to obtain the letter wasn't exlcusionary, it was actually inclusive. Non-Federation Citizens were already excluded by nature of being non-Federation. The letter from a Command Officer was a way in for a Non-Federation Citizen __________________ One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?

February 21 2013, 06:58 PM	#5
WesleysDisciple Lieutenant Commander	Re: Nogs decision to join Starfleet. meaning how DIFFICLT is it to obtain such a letter, since some people will have an easier time knowing a command level officer. One possiblety, for Ro? Maybe some of the larger Refugee camps (the ones outside of cardassian space) Have at least one federation diplomat, who will grant anyone whos grades seem to suggest they'd make a canidate Yes I think a senior federation government official while not mentioned by sisko, would probaly carry the same official weight.

February 21 2013, 07:19 PM	#6
Pavonis Commodore Location: South Dakota	Re: Nogs decision to join Starfleet. How difficult it is to get a letter probably depends on how determined the applicant-to-be is to get into Starfleet. Sisko wasn't sure Nog's desire to get into Starfleet was real, so wasn't inclined to write a letter to support his application. After getting to the heart of Nog's motivation, he wrote the letter. Of course, the letter didn't get Nog into the Academy. It seems to have allowed him to take the entrance exam. He wouldn't get in without passing the entrance exam, no matter who wrote the letter. As for Ro, we really don't know much about her backstory. Once she was out of Cardassian-controlled space, she could end up on Earth as easily as anywhere else, and possibly just ended up networking with the right people.

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February 21 2013, 08:42 PM	#7
Ensign_Redshirt Fleet Captain	Re: Nogs decision to join Starfleet. It was an interesting twist to have Nog (instead of Jake) wanting to join Starfleet.

February 21 2013, 10:43 PM	#10
Timo Admiral	Re: Nogs decision to join Starfleet. The fun thing is, we already heard of this "endorsement needed for getting to the Academy" all the way back in TOS "The Apple". There, it was said that James T. Kirk had gotten it himself, from the father of Ensign Mallory. Should we perhaps deduce that Kirk wasn't a Federation citizen back then? Despite him supposedly being born on Earth, in Iowa, this could well be possible - his childhood involved an episode on Tarsus IV, an isolated and seemingly isolationist colony where little Jim's parents are conspicuously absent. All sorts of backstories could be spun from that. Of course, Jim could have been endorsed even if he didn't need to. But Kirk seems to think the role of Daddy Mallory was important in Kirk getting to the Academy. Timo Saloniemi

February 21 2013, 11:03 PM	#11
C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)	Re: Nogs decision to join Starfleet. I thought everyone who entered the Academy had to have a letter of endorsement, similar to how cadets in the US Naval Academy had to (they can get an endorsement from multiple government sources). __________________ "Shout, shout, let it all out..."

February 21 2013, 11:14 PM	#12
Pavonis Commodore Location: South Dakota	Re: Nogs decision to join Starfleet. Perhaps the letters have to have different content? Maybe a letter for a non-Federate needs to outline the advantages of allowing the candidate to apply to the Academy?

March 4 2013, 08:27 AM	#13
t_smitts Commander	Re: Nogs decision to join Starfleet. It's been a long time since I've seen "The Apple", but my memory was that it was simply said the elder Mallory helped Kirk get into the Academy without specifying what he did to help Kirk. It may have been a case of tutoring him to prepare for the entrance exam, or securing him one of those testing spots Wesley got in "Coming of Age". The Bajorans and Ferengi have explicitly said to not be Fed worlds, for those questioning the matter. In the case of Ro, Sito, and the various other Bajorans said to be in Starfleet, they likely escaped Bajor or came from a refugee settlement and made contact with some Starfleet officer at some point. Nog joining Starfleet was a terrific idea. It permitted him to be part of almost all war-related stories, and ironically, it seemed like he had more to do than Jake most of the time. From what I've heard Aron Eisenberg didn't think it was such a great idea at first, but just as with Rene Auberjonois and the notion of Odo finding his people, he came to see it was a great development. Honestly, it's hard now for me to imagine a time when Nog wasn't an officer.

March 4 2013, 09:48 AM	#14
Infern0 Captain	Re: Nogs decision to join Starfleet. I would assume he needed the letter because, lets face it on paper he was not officer material. Don't forget, there is an entire underclass of NCO's in starfleet who do not go to the academy, which is essentially a military university. Nog was a non federation citizen with a criminal record who barely even went to school, frankly even with Siskos letter he would have been incredibly lucky to get in.

March 4 2013, 12:20 PM	#15
Deckerd Fleet Arse Location: in the Frozen Wastes	Re: Nogs decision to join Starfleet. It seems to me that the officer recruitment would be looking for potential rather than academic achievement. Since Nog was nothing if not extremely bright, this would have been recognised. I agree with everyone who said this was an excellent plot device, especially since he had both the skepticism of regular Starfleet plus the horror of his own family to contend with. Of course it was started all the way back with Worf and reminds me a bit of Terry Pratchett's Watch, where the police force are the first to recruit all the types of people that nobody else had ever considered employable. __________________ They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance.