Doctor Who in the Star Trek universe - Page 4

Captaindemotion · March 8 2013, 01:17 PM

Christopher wrote:

Captaindemotion wrote:

I suppose it depends how you define 'canon.' Sherlock Holmes fans use it to mean novels written by Conan Doyle. The Bible means the 4 gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

If you apply the same sort of criteria to DW, I would argue that the likes of books, radio dramas, DW unbound and the Cushing movies fall outside the definition of canon, no matter how influential they have proven to be or how well they fit in within the continuity of the series.

The reason fans make such a fuss over the word "canon" is that they assume it's a value judgment, a seal of approval for what's real or worthwhile or acceptable. But it isn't. It's just a descriptive label. The canon is the original, core body of work, as distinct from derivative works by other creators or companies (i.e. licensed tie-ins or fanfiction). That's all the word means. It doesn't mean "real" or "right," because virtually any long-running canon will retcon or ignore earlier parts of itself, so canon is no more exempt from being contradicted than tie-ins are. Fans use "canon" as a synonym for "continuity," and that's generally the goal, but it's not absolute, because a canon can rewrite its own continuity, or it can add ideas from non-canonical works into its continuity (e.g. the Star Wars prequels and TV series incorporating characters, species, planets, etc. created for the comics and novels in some cases while ignoring them in others).

So canon does exist; it just doesn't mean as much as fans mistakenly assume it does. Doctor Who has a canon, but that canon has a very loose and mutable continuity.

Indeed, even to return to one of the examples I used, the four Gospels of the New Testament are 'Canon' but contain different tellings of the life of Christ, each varying somewhat from the others.

(I'm probably coming across as really religious here but I'm actually at best an Agnostic!)

Redfern · March 8 2013, 02:39 PM

Rather than us bickering over (under, beside, behind, etc.) canon (contenuity, whatever), let's just kick back and present examples of crossover craziness, be it illustration, Photoshopping, music videos or some other creative endeavor.

Sincerely,

Bill

EliyahuQeoni · March 8 2013, 03:26 PM

Captaindemotion wrote:

Indeed, even to return to one of the examples I used, the four Gospels of the New Testament are 'Canon' but contain different tellings of the life of Christ, each varying somewhat from the others.

And just like in Trek Fandom, there are many Christian theologians who will go through great pains to show how don't really contradict each other, tell the same story and fit together perfectly. The same is true of other religious canons, such as the canon of the Hebrew Bible/Tanakh, which--to cite one example--contains two differeing accounts of the creation of mankind.

Starkers · March 8 2013, 03:57 PM

Mr. Adventure · March 8 2013, 04:08 PM

Redfern wrote:

Rather than us bickering over (under, beside, behind, etc.) canon (contenuity, whatever), let's just kick back and present examples of crossover craziness, be it illustration, Photoshopping, music videos or some other creative endeavor.

Sincerely,

Bill

Crazy talk!

DalekJim · March 8 2013, 04:09 PM

I only believe in the Big Finish audios about Jesus. The Bible is non-canon.

Captaindemotion · March 8 2013, 04:47 PM

What about Multi-Jesus crossovers?

Starkers · March 8 2013, 05:28 PM

Fifith Jesus is still my favourite. I still can't believe the robes they gave the sixth Jesus to wear...

DalekJim · March 8 2013, 05:48 PM

I prefer the Seventh Jesus's darker literary stories in the Virgin Mary New Adventures.

Nagisa Furukawa · March 8 2013, 06:32 PM

DalekJim wrote:

Virgin Mary New Adventures.

/thread

Sindatur · March 8 2013, 06:36 PM

I just love Jesus in General, I can't pick one that I love above all others

Klaus · March 9 2013, 01:28 AM

You Never Forget Your First Jesus...

Nerys Myk · March 9 2013, 03:10 AM

Sindatur wrote:

Mr. Adventure wrote:

Yeah, rereading that now I see that, serves me right for getting in a thread about canon.

I'm going back to my personal country now, hold my calls everone...

I find whenever threads turn towards discussing Canon, someone almost always gets shot

Greedo?

publiusr · March 9 2013, 08:34 PM

In terms of trek/Dr. Who cross-overs, for the artists out there:

TOS meets fourth Doctor

Tennant should have been on Enterprise-D (more work with Pat)

Matt Smith with JJ and Pine.

It gets a bit harder after that.

Hartnell on the Orbit Jet.

Second Doctor on Lost in space or the Time Tunnel

Third Doctor On Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea...or UFO

Fifth Doctor in Buck Rogers with Erin Grey

Sixth Doctor on Red Dwarf of course.

Seventh Doctor...hmm NuBSG--Stargate--or, of all things Game of Thrones.
Eighth on Space Above and beyond
Ninth in Alien

Starkers · March 9 2013, 11:31 PM

The Sixth Doctor was on Blakes 7

March 8 2013, 02:39 PM	#47
Redfern Fleet Captain Location: Georgia, USA	Re: Doctor Who in the Star Trek universe Rather than us bickering over (under, beside, behind, etc.) canon (contenuity, whatever), let's just kick back and present examples of crossover craziness, be it illustration, Photoshopping, music videos or some other creative endeavor. Sincerely, Bill __________________ Tempt the Hand of Fate and it'll give you the "finger"! Freighter Tails: the Misadventures of Mzzkiti

March 8 2013, 03:57 PM	#49
Starkers Admiral Location: Behind enemy lines...	Re: Doctor Who in the Star Trek universe __________________ Werewolves on the Moon Now with Byzantium review The Devils of Amber Street

March 8 2013, 04:09 PM	#51
DalekJim Fleet Captain Location: Great Britain	Re: Doctor Who in the Star Trek universe I only believe in the Big Finish audios about Jesus. The Bible is non-canon. __________________ The Paradox Machine - My blog "A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands." - A Storm of Swords by George R.R. Martin

March 8 2013, 04:47 PM	#52
Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Location: Ireland	Re: Doctor Who in the Star Trek universe What about Multi-Jesus crossovers? __________________ Hodor!!!!!!!

March 8 2013, 05:28 PM	#53
Starkers Admiral Location: Behind enemy lines...	Re: Doctor Who in the Star Trek universe Fifith Jesus is still my favourite. I still can't believe the robes they gave the sixth Jesus to wear... __________________ Werewolves on the Moon Now with Byzantium review The Devils of Amber Street

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

March 8 2013, 05:48 PM	#54
DalekJim Fleet Captain Location: Great Britain	Re: Doctor Who in the Star Trek universe I prefer the Seventh Jesus's darker literary stories in the Virgin Mary New Adventures. __________________ The Paradox Machine - My blog "A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands." - A Storm of Swords by George R.R. Martin

March 8 2013, 06:36 PM	#56
Sindatur Rear Admiral Location: Sacramento, CA	Re: Doctor Who in the Star Trek universe I just love Jesus in General, I can't pick one that I love above all others __________________ One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?

March 9 2013, 01:28 AM	#57
Klaus Rear Admiral Location: Beach condo, Bay of Eldamar	Re: Doctor Who in the Star Trek universe You Never Forget Your First Jesus... __________________ "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Mark Twain t-shirts! deviantArt

March 9 2013, 08:34 PM	#59
publiusr Fleet Captain	Re: Doctor Who in the Star Trek universe In terms of trek/Dr. Who cross-overs, for the artists out there: TOS meets fourth Doctor Tennant should have been on Enterprise-D (more work with Pat) Matt Smith with JJ and Pine. It gets a bit harder after that. Hartnell on the Orbit Jet. Second Doctor on Lost in space or the Time Tunnel Third Doctor On Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea...or UFO Fifth Doctor in Buck Rogers with Erin Grey Sixth Doctor on Red Dwarf of course. Seventh Doctor...hmm NuBSG--Stargate--or, of all things Game of Thrones. Eighth on Space Above and beyond Ninth in Alien

March 9 2013, 11:31 PM	#60
Starkers Admiral Location: Behind enemy lines...	Re: Doctor Who in the Star Trek universe The Sixth Doctor was on Blakes 7 __________________ Werewolves on the Moon Now with Byzantium review The Devils of Amber Street