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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old June 12 2014, 07:33 PM   #571
NightJim
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Well I didn't start the book last night, and I managed to get Fury in tonight, partly because of what JanewayRulez said, and partly because if I left it Fury hanging there with the reputation I had, then I'd have delayed watching Voyager again for ages.

After having watched it... What the Hell was all the fuss about? It's actually a decent episode. Oh sure, it isn't nice to Kes, but the poor girl had clearly gone mad after leaving Voyager, something in her rising to a higher plane went pretty wrong. And with Janeway's foreknowledge, and her younger self, they're able to solve the problem and offer solace to the misguided and alienated version. If the episode had ended with Kes still an evil psychopath I could see where all the cries of outrage were coming from, but it wasn't, it was resolved rather nicely.

It was also a rather brilliant portrayal of Season 1 Voyager too.



Lee:
The Hirogen array only allowed for communication transmissions, not anything nearly as sophisticated as the Cartaker's. She did make a deal with the Borg, but they quickly learnt the Borg were playing them and it was they who had started hostilities with Species 8472, not the other way around, so she broke it off. I don't think there was ever a 'wrong decision' made, unless you're thinking of The Voyager Conspiracy, which is when Seven starts creating elaborate plots where Janeway did it on purpose.
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Old June 12 2014, 11:01 PM   #572
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Chakotay broke the deal first. Then he spaced 40 drones, then when Janeway came out of her coma, she apologized and asked for the old deal back from before they killed 40 drones.

Maybe they would have still betrayed Voyager if the Indian hadn't ejaculated all those drones into the universe, but Voyager betrayed them first, so we'll never know.
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Old June 13 2014, 08:57 AM   #573
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

But the deal was a lie in the first place. The Borg said 8472 had started it, while it was the Borg who had tried to invade fluidic space.
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Old June 13 2014, 09:24 AM   #574
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

NightJim wrote: View Post

After having watched it... What the Hell was all the fuss about?
I thought it was hilarious. Until I joined this BBS.
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Old June 13 2014, 11:04 AM   #575
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

NightJim wrote: View Post
But the deal was a lie in the first place. The Borg said 8472 had started it, while it was the Borg who had tried to invade fluidic space.
What you call invasion, others might call liberation.
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Old June 13 2014, 11:13 AM   #576
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

So all great fascists have said.
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Old June 13 2014, 02:44 PM   #577
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

But fascists usually have snazzy uniforms.
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Old June 13 2014, 02:50 PM   #578
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Well if you find this hot that's your prerogative..

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Old June 13 2014, 03:15 PM   #579
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

I tried doing a second run of the show (the first time was in 2009). What I did for the second viewing was watch it in air order with DS9 (which I also did with TNG). I thought it would be interesting to watch the three shows as they actually aired, even seeing which show had the best episode of that week. I used this list to help: http://startreklist.blogspot.com/201...sorted_05.html

After finishing DS9, I've been hesitant to watch another VOY episode. I just can't stand it, especially by the later seasons. I think I tried finishing "Memorial" twice but could never get through it.
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Old June 13 2014, 03:47 PM   #580
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

teacake wrote: View Post
Well if you find this hot that's your prerogative..

Lipstick and pigs, no amount of snazziness will help when you look like a baked ham.
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Old June 13 2014, 04:42 PM   #581
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

NightJim wrote: View Post
After having watched it... What the Hell was all the fuss about? It's actually a decent episode. Oh sure, it isn't nice to Kes, but the poor girl had clearly gone mad after leaving Voyager, something in her rising to a higher plane went pretty wrong. And with Janeway's foreknowledge, and her younger self, they're able to solve the problem and offer solace to the misguided and alienated version. If the episode had ended with Kes still an evil psychopath I could see where all the cries of outrage were coming from, but it wasn't, it was resolved rather nicely.
Mad? ... she's mad enough to forget all the relationships she had made on Voyager over the years, but not mad enough to ....

#1. Find Voyager
#2. Get past every security system / forcefield on the ship
#3. travel back in time.
#4. assult herself
#5. betray the entire crew to the Vidians (hang on to your organs!!!)

etc, etc...

Oh, and wasn't Kes' ship destroyed, then it was there for her to leave at the end?

This just wasn't Kes. Kes loved EVERYONE and to just forget that because she felt betrayed was just too much of a leap for me. The 180 Kes takes is just not believable and the episode gives us no reason why she has had this change of heart.

This was a "an old friend needs money so lets give her another episode" episode. and Jennifer's acting in this ep was horrible.

Glad you enjoyed it, but this one is in the TATV category for me.
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Old June 14 2014, 12:38 AM   #582
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Ocampan dementia is a bitch.
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Old June 14 2014, 03:35 AM   #583
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

NightJim wrote: View Post
Well I didn't start the book last night, and I managed to get Fury in tonight, partly because of what JanewayRulez said, and partly because if I left it Fury hanging there with the reputation I had, then I'd have delayed watching Voyager again for ages.

After having watched it... What the Hell was all the fuss about? It's actually a decent episode. Oh sure, it isn't nice to Kes, but the poor girl had clearly gone mad after leaving Voyager, something in her rising to a higher plane went pretty wrong. And with Janeway's foreknowledge, and her younger self, they're able to solve the problem and offer solace to the misguided and alienated version. If the episode had ended with Kes still an evil psychopath I could see where all the cries of outrage were coming from, but it wasn't, it was resolved rather nicely.

It was also a rather brilliant portrayal of Season 1 Voyager too.
I agree... and I'm proud to have been the catalyst for you to watch that ep.

Well, that and the popcorn.

I actually used this ep in one of my fanfics to explain why Janeway ultimately separated Tuvix. In season 1 Tuvok's vision of season 5, he was greeted as "Tuvok" by young Naomi Wildman. I saw that as evidence Janeway would use to support separating Tuvix since she already had a glimpse of the future.

ETA:

I also liked the bookend of her story with that of Voyager itself. We see Kes going home to Ocampa, the only place to truly soothe her wounded soul.

Just as the crew of Voyager are struggling to go home to the Alpha Quadrant.
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Old June 14 2014, 06:41 AM   #584
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

teacake wrote: View Post
Ocampan demented bitch.
Fixed it.

I
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Old June 14 2014, 07:02 AM   #585
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Re: Voyager again, for the first time

Who did she have that baby with in the Eternal Tide anyway?
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