RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 142,313
Posts: 5,554,579
Members: 25,274
Currently online: 668
Newest member: zia tiger

TrekToday headlines

New Shatner Priceline Commercial
By: T'Bonz on Jan 29

Pine Joins Netflix Series
By: T'Bonz on Jan 29

Ortiz Art Mugs
By: T'Bonz on Jan 28

Ingham Passes
By: T'Bonz on Jan 28

Star Trek Online Celebrates Five Years
By: T'Bonz on Jan 27

WizKids/Star Trek Online Caption Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jan 26

No Quinto In Heroes Reborn
By: T'Bonz on Jan 26

Pine Responds To Pegg Writer Announcement
By: T'Bonz on Jan 26

Retro Review: Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
By: Michelle on Jan 24

Urban in Aquaman?
By: T'Bonz on Jan 23


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 20 2014, 04:46 PM   #1
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

I like this episode. I love seeing the 'alternate crew', and like others here said it's the nearest we'll ever get to basically Voyager in the Mirror Universe.

But I do think the story as a whole is unsatisfying.

I appreciate the 'message' of the episode, but the way the show ends was completely wrong. We're kind of going along for the ride, we want to see the Doctor and Quarren find that tricorder and 'prove' the true story, as well as maybe seeing them actually find that common ground between the Kyrians and the Vaskan and resolve the conflict. But no, we don't get to see that.

I dunno, maybe its just me, but I really hate the way the show just seems to 'stop'. It just pulls back from that screen and has that other lady go "And that's how the Doctor got us all to love and respect each other". It feels like they ran out of time to tell the story or something.

Am I alone in feeling like this?
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20 2014, 05:12 PM   #2
Danny99
Vice Admiral
 
Danny99's Avatar
 
Location: Cookstown, Ontario, Canada
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

I didn't like the ending either and would've have much preferred a two parter of this to say "Flesh & Blood." I also wouldn't have minded that the conflict continued between the Vaskans and the Kyrians well into the future, a parallel of current Earth where some can be interested in peace, but war and hate is still perpetuated by most.
__________________
The poster previously known as canadaboy_32
Danny99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20 2014, 05:55 PM   #3
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

I did wonder briefly if the arbitrary nature of the ending was supposed to leave us guessing as to whether what we've been watching all along was as much a case of "theoretical postulating based on what we know" as Quarran's own exhibit about Voyager's involvement had been. In other words, we didn't really see the events of the day that Quarran rediscovered the EMH..... we only saw the future female curator's interpretation of the day that Quarren rediscovered the EMH.....
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20 2014, 06:17 PM   #4
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

It was a great show for Picardo, and Evil Voyager was a lot of fun, but I simply didn't care about the people on the planet. I know the intent was to comment on revisionist history, but there should have a way to make us care more about the Doctor's predicament than some people we'll never see again.
__________________
Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard: For duty and humanity! --Men in Black (1934)
Melakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20 2014, 06:23 PM   #5
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

^ Yeah that's kind of it Melakon. I was interested in the Doctor's predicament, but they spent so little time developing it. The episode is almost a third of the way through its running time before Quarren even first activates the EMH, and then we get him being threatened with complete deactivation for his 'lies'..... but we never get to see him triumph over that and convince them he's telling the truth. All we do get told by the future curator is "Oh btw, the EMH survived and went on his merry way as well, The End".

Can't help wondering if the script should have had another draft. They should've introduced the EMH into the story sooner somehow so that they have time to develop the plot to a more satisfying conclusion.
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20 2014, 06:44 PM   #6
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

It might have worked better if they could have developed a revisionist history story that more directly involved the crew. Perhaps we got word that a planet we'd been to a season or two earlier was alreay rewriting events, and we had to fix that. I don't know.
__________________
Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard: For duty and humanity! --Men in Black (1934)
Melakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21 2014, 02:08 AM   #7
tomswift2002
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

Another thing I found odd with this episode that really messed up it's continuity was that the "Doctor" who got left behind was a back-up to the main Doctor. This backup would've come in handy in "Message In A Bottle", and yet we had that whole scene with Paris and Kim trying (unsuccessfully) to create a backup from scratch. So did Kim make a backup of the Doctor upon the Doctor's return or was this back-up on Voyager for the first 4 seasons? And if it was, why didn't the crew just use it when the main Doctor started to "glitch" and needed the repair program?
tomswift2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21 2014, 02:56 AM   #8
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

Melakon wrote: View Post
It might have worked better if they could have developed a revisionist history story that more directly involved the crew. Perhaps we got word that a planet we'd been to a season or two earlier was alreay rewriting events, and we had to fix that. I don't know.
The interesting thing about the 'revisionist history' angle is that it actually does tie in with something we saw from an earlier episode: in "Cold Fire" Janeway was told by an Ocampa that Voyager already has a reputation in the Delta Quadrant for bringing death in its wake (she expresses surprise at this). What we see in "Living Witness" is just one of these planets touched by the 'ship of death', one where the population have had 700 years to reinterpret the events of Voyager's fleeting, but fateful, visit.
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 12:24 AM   #9
Kevman7987
Captain
 
Kevman7987's Avatar
 
Location: Erie, PA, USA
View Kevman7987's Twitter Profile
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

Oee thing I can say about this episode is that I liked the "evil" reinterpretation of the "colored yoke" uniforms over the regular DS9/VOY versions. I really disliked the fact that those uniforms usually have the "purple" collar. They looked much nicer in with black on black.
__________________
"Don't do it, Meat!"
"Don't do it, Cheese!"
Kevman7987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 12:40 AM   #10
Ithekro
Fleet Captain
 
Ithekro's Avatar
 
Location: Republic of California
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

Also it seems Starfleet never followed up on all Voyager's stops in the last 700 years.
Ithekro is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 01:03 AM   #11
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

Voyagers journey home was a National Park (Federal Park?).

Inside a corridor 5 light years either side of Voyager's path (From the admiral Janeway Timeline, where they didn't cheat.) there is allowed no Federation activity or colonies other than cloaked tourists, and the preservation of of the Park.

In fact it might be argued that as any world fell or died out, it would be replaced by Federal Park Rangers to preserve the integrity of the Voyager Federal Park.

But as far as the meat of the original post goes, the episode is a lot more enjoyable if you consider that that story might have taken place in the mirror universe and all the evil Voyager scenes happened verbatim, and then after the Doctor woke up 700 hundred years later he lied. He lied, and lied and lied to cover his ass.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 11:14 AM   #12
Finn
Vice Admiral
 
Finn's Avatar
 
Location: In the Metrowest
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

Ithekro wrote: View Post
Also it seems Starfleet never followed up on all Voyager's stops in the last 700 years.

They may have. Quarren's area of space may have been a bloody war zone by the time Starfleet checked it out for a "follow up", and moved on.
Finn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 01:46 PM   #13
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

Finn wrote: View Post
Ithekro wrote: View Post
Also it seems Starfleet never followed up on all Voyager's stops in the last 700 years.

They may have. Quarren's area of space may have been a bloody war zone by the time Starfleet checked it out for a "follow up", and moved on.
Or the Prime Directive may have been re-written and under the new definition, that planet is considered "too primitive." Haven't developed quantum slipstream or embraced the true meaning of evolving into salamanders after travelling at warp 10 or something.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 22 2014, 09:51 PM   #14
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

I wrote a story about that once. The Second the Federation figured out Transwarp, they closed their borders and disappeared. And all the planets that they were giving aid to, or stopping from having a war were suddenly fucked. The Alpha quadrant just went to hell.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

Last edited by Guy Gardener; July 23 2014 at 02:51 AM.
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 23 2014, 02:48 AM   #15
Pondwater
Commodore
 
Pondwater's Avatar
 
Location: An apartment with a view on the finest avenue.
Re: Is it just me, or is "Living Witness" unsatisfying?

I would of liked it better as a MU episode.
*flees*
__________________
~Pondwater

...Let me cut your cake with my knife...
Pondwater is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.