Divisions, Insignia, Uniforms and Assignment Patches

[Timo]

So... What sort of identifying/decorative function could we assign to these patches, if they aren't related to the line of work of the character, or his or her rank, or whatnot?

Three symbols for three shifts, perhaps? But it would be a bit weird that we never actually see a shift consisting predominantly of those wearing the appropriate patch.

Three symbols for three pay grades (within each rank)? Scotty might have gotten a raise for the Memory Alpha IT work that was outside his usual field of proficiency...

Three symbols for level of excellence (within each rank), without practical impact on pay or the like? Scotty might be doing better on some weeks than others, but never quite reaches "star grade". It's much easier for those command types who don't have to master actual skills such as impulse engine repair.

Three symbols for time in rank? Scotty would be an old dog at LtCmdr with the highest possible symbol, the sphere, while Kirk would still be a youngster at Captain rank. But when seniority issues arise, even a difference of weeks is of significance, so three levels wouldn't help much.

Other ideas?

Timo Saloniemi

[Jose Tyler]

Timo wrote:

---

So... What sort of identifying/decorative function could we assign to these patches, if they aren't related to the line of work of the character, or his or her rank, or whatnot?

Three symbols for three shifts, perhaps? But it would be a bit weird that we never actually see a shift consisting predominantly of those wearing the appropriate patch.

Three symbols for three pay grades (within each rank)? Scotty might have gotten a raise for the Memory Alpha IT work that was outside his usual field of proficiency...

Three symbols for level of excellence (within each rank), without practical impact on pay or the like? Scotty might be doing better on some weeks than others, but never quite reaches "star grade". It's much easier for those command types who don't have to master actual skills such as impulse engine repair.

Three symbols for time in rank? Scotty would be an old dog at LtCmdr with the highest possible symbol, the sphere, while Kirk would still be a youngster at Captain rank. But when seniority issues arise, even a difference of weeks is of significance, so three levels wouldn't help much.

Other ideas?

Timo Saloniemi

Maybe it can be tied to which operating authority the division is working under for that specific mission; the emblems we are used to seeing are worn when Starfleet Command is calling the shots, but something different is worn when the ship is flying under the UESPA flag, or vice versa.

For TLOZ, maybe everytime Scotty is working on the equipment transfer, it fall under the UESPA Quartermaster Corp, and a different symbol is used...

[Pavonis]

And you think he changes his emblem every time his orders come from a different authority? I don't know about the plausibility of that, though I could imagine the assignment patch being an update-able display, like e-ink or something.

[Jose Tyler]

Pavonis wrote:

---

And you think he changes his emblem every time his orders come from a different authority? I don't know about the plausibility of that, though I could imagine the assignment patch being an update-able display, like e-ink or something.

Anything is plausible in a big enough bureaucracy. Assuming the uninforms are fabricated/replicated in some fashion, the ship’s computer would know what duty you were assigned to that shift, so it could easily zap a circle or a squiggle based on your orders. It is no more implausible than other things we’ve seen on TOS.

[TREK_GOD_1]

Jose Tyler wrote:

---

Anything is plausible in a big enough bureaucracy. Assuming the uninforms are fabricated/replicated in some fashion, the ship’s computer would know what duty you were assigned to that shift, so it could easily zap a circle or a squiggle based on your orders. It is no more implausible than other things we’ve seen on TOS.

Interesting theory.

[plynch]

I actually think Franz Joseph, using his powers of inference, pretty much nailed it. The seamstresses at night occasionally did not. Pretend the ship's laundry or clothes reclamation unit messed up occasionally.

[blssdwlf]

With BK613's find, we're up to 4 variations of the delta patches

1. Star
2. Circular
3. Spiral
4. Rectangle with open right side

With these known parameters:
1. variations only exist on the delta patch,
2. not everyone wears the delta patch - some use a different design that doesn't have room for same variations
3. the delta patch is seen mixed in on other ships that might have different patches
4. character x can switch back and forth between delta patch variations

Then I guess that it is just a Starfleet patch. The variation is purely cosmetic. Or it might be a shift patch. It could indicate which of the three shifts the character is currently assigned to. But that wouldn't account for the other patches that don't have room for variations.

Timo wrote:

---

So... What sort of identifying/decorative function could we assign to these patches, if they aren't related to the line of work of the character, or his or her rank, or whatnot?

Three symbols for three shifts, perhaps? But it would be a bit weird that we never actually see a shift consisting predominantly of those wearing the appropriate patch.

Three symbols for three pay grades (within each rank)? Scotty might have gotten a raise for the Memory Alpha IT work that was outside his usual field of proficiency...

Three symbols for level of excellence (within each rank), without practical impact on pay or the like? Scotty might be doing better on some weeks than others, but never quite reaches "star grade". It's much easier for those command types who don't have to master actual skills such as impulse engine repair.

Three symbols for time in rank? Scotty would be an old dog at LtCmdr with the highest possible symbol, the sphere, while Kirk would still be a youngster at Captain rank. But when seniority issues arise, even a difference of weeks is of significance, so three levels wouldn't help much.

Other ideas?

Timo Saloniemi

[Robert Comsol]

Pavonis wrote:

---

And you think he changes his emblem every time his orders come from a different authority? I don't know about the plausibility of that, though I could imagine the assignment patch being an update-able display, like e-ink or something.

Hmm...I like that. Since Scotty obviously starts to show interest in female biology in "The Lights of Zetar" his department accordingly changes from "engineering" to "science" ... (Seriously, maybe it was an inside joke of the producers)

or this:

KIRK: Scotty, where've you been? Where are you?
SCOTT: In the Sickbay.
KIRK: Are you sick?
SCOTT: Och, no. I was just checking on the lass. She's going to be fine now. There's nothing wrong with her.
KIRK: Well, I'm relieved to hear your prognosis, Mister Scott. Is the doctor there with you, or will I find him in Engineering?

Bob

[SchwEnt]

I still like my idea of there being more than the three or four symbols we commonly saw. We usually saw them on the main characters, who were high level officers aboard ship with varied responsibilities. Spock as First Officer should wear the command star but wore the sciences oval. McCoy as CMO should have medical cross but with his greater life sciences command, he wore science oval.

I'd think that much of the crew had more limited duties and responsibilities, and a more specific symbol to indicate that. Ship's historian or phaser technician or A&A officer or Records officer or shuttle pilot. Seemingly specific duties, and broadly they could fit under command/science/engineering symbols. But what the hell, I imagine there are lots of others. TMP expanded on this with some additional logos and division symbols, (communications, environmental, tactical) and many fan-based ideas have contributed as well.

[Shawnster]

blssdwlf wrote:

---

With BK613's find, we're up to 4 variations of the delta patches

1. Star
2. Circular
3. Spiral
4. Rectangle with open right side

With these known parameters:
1. variations only exist on the delta patch,
2. not everyone wears the delta patch - some use a different design that doesn't have room for same variations
3. the delta patch is seen mixed in on other ships that might have different patches
4. character x can switch back and forth between delta patch variations

Then I guess that it is just a Starfleet patch. The variation is purely cosmetic. Or it might be a shift patch. It could indicate which of the three shifts the character is currently assigned to. But that wouldn't account for the other patches that don't have room for variations.

Don't forget Nurse Chapel (as already mentioned above)

[CorporalCaptain]

While we're at it, I always thought that medical should get it's own symbol (pick one from the Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual, probably the one on page 15), and security should get it's own, too (I don't know what, though).

[GSchnitzer]

Shawnster wrote:

---

Don't forget Nurse Chapel (as already mentioned above)

And don't forget that Nurse Chapel (and others) had two different styles of Red Cross patch--one with just a Red Cross, and the earlier style--with the Red Cross superimposed on the Sciences symbol.

http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/?p=1557

[Carcazoid]

I never thought about it, but division and department don't necessarily have to be the same. An officer could be assigned to a science or services department but still be in command division, or a command officer could be attached to a sciences department, or whatever. The badge and the shirt wouldn't have to match.

At the time, probably no one gave it a second thought.

[blssdwlf]

GSchnitzer wrote:

---

And don't forget that Nurse Chapel (and others) had two different styles of Red Cross patch--one with just a Red Cross, and the earlier style--with the Red Cross superimposed on the Sciences symbol.

http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/?p=1557

Dang... Excellent research GSchnitzer

It is interesting that some variations are interchangeable.

[BK613]

Carcazoid wrote:

---

I never thought about it, but division and department don't necessarily have to be the same. An officer could be assigned to a science or services department but still be in command division, or a command officer could be attached to a sciences department, or whatever. The badge and the shirt wouldn't have to match.

At the time, probably no one gave it a second thought.

Or the red/blue/yellow each had command/science/engineering specialists in them. or vice versa.