The old "DS9 stole from B5" thing

[EmoBorg]

If we ever have a sci fi civil war, the B5 and DS9 rivalry are good candidates for starting the war, beside the star trek and star wars rivalry of course.

[Mr Light]

Oh wow, I never even thought of the "main character is a religious figure" similarity before!

[Psion]

Mr Light wrote:

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Oh wow, I never even thought of the "main character is a religious figure" similarity before!

Unwilling religious figure.

[JediKnightButler]

I'm nearly through Star Trek: Deep Space Nine (after having seen B5 in its entirety) and I've noticed a lot of similarities/parallels between the two series. I don't recall that there were any flagrant copies/rip-offs between the two series other than they are both set on a space station but then again why should only one show get to have a space station being a central focus for a series? I personally have enjoyed both series pretty much equally. Of the two series, I have always felt that B5 was kind of more "realistic" in terms of what the future would look like and more character-driven. It's continuity was a bit tighter than DS9 but then again DS9 didn't have the whole storyline planned out in advance. I still feel like DS9 choked a bit at the end with the final showdown between Dukat/Sisko/Winn, which seemed a bit "hammy", as well making the incomprehensible mistake of failing to resolve Bajor's status within the Federation, which underpinned the entire series. By contrast, I felt that B5 almost had no filler and wrapped up everything quite nicely by the end of S4 but still provided a nice little "coda" with S5. I'm planning to (someday) write up a blog post with all of the parallels/differences I've found between the two series.

[Neroon]

Forbin wrote:

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See? Fun discussion with humor, friendliness and no yelling. I knew we could do it.

And hey, Space Angel predated all of the above, with its cool space station and cool space ship, and really freaky human mouths on cartoon people.

Brings a tear to me eye.

[Hound of UIster]

Forbin wrote:

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Oh, jms freely admits that as his main inspiration. LotR and, I think, Arthurian legend. Or was it Greek mythology

More Babylonian mythology.

The Arthurian legend is very apparent even without Late Delivery From Avalon.

[EnsignRicky]

What?

Forbidden Planet The Series stole from Lord Of The Rings In Space?

That's terrible.

[JoeD80]

Gary Mitchell wrote:

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Uh, thanks Mr. Wizard.

Um...OK?

[Forbin]

EnsignRicky wrote:

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What?

Forbidden Planet The Series stole from Lord Of The Rings In Space?

That's terrible.

[Reverend]

Hound of UIster wrote:

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More Babylonian mythology.

The Arthurian legend is very apparent even without Late Delivery From Avalon.

The LotR influence is fairly minimal. Indeed, most of it is just shout-outs by way of a few character/place names (some of which were unintentional) and I think one direct quote. Nothing of any real substance or depth.

Plus I'm pretty sure JMS has said that the likes of 'Lensman' & 'Foundation' had a much bigger impact than anything else. Add to that some Rod Sterling, H.P. Lovecraft, Harlan Ellison and, oh yeah, J. Michael Straczynski.

[Nagisa Furukawa]

Reverend wrote:

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The LotR influence is fairly minimal. Indeed, most of it is just shout-outs by way of a few character/place names (some of which were unintentional) and I think one direct quote. Nothing of any real substance or depth.

Plus I'm pretty sure JMS has said that the likes of 'Lensman' & 'Foundation' had a much bigger impact than anything else. Add to that some Rod Sterling, H.P. Lovecraft, Harlan Ellison and, oh yeah, J. Michael Straczynski.

The idea of [spoiler]the elder races leaving to go to the Grey Havens-err, beyond the rim and the protagonist joining them there at the end[/spoiler] is clearly LotR-inspired.

[Reverend]

A superficial similarity does not an inspiration make. Hell, that example doesn't make much sense. The elves in LotR were going to a specific place, a paradise, like coming home. The First Ones went *away* from their homes with no destination in mind. Just "out there" into the void between galaxies.

Even so, that's *one* story element among hundreds. JMS has made no bones about what his influences were and while LotR is in there, it's nowhere near as significant as some people try to make out. Ironic considering how for years people insisted that LotR was an allegory for WWII, even after Tolkien said otherwise.

[dub]

Someone claiming to be from the production staff of DS9 posted this on facebook:

They almost used this as the open for Season 7, but I stopped them because I told them they stole too much from B5 already:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlB-zCZ2PWo

Ah-HA!!

[DalekJim]

Reverend wrote:

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A superficial similarity does not an inspiration make.

I'm a Tolkien purist through and through. Babylon 5 shows huge influence from Tolkien's legendarium and is undoubtedly its biggest influence. JMS' online comments consistently reference LOTR as a comparison and influence. Nagisa is right in that having the elder races leave the younger ones for the Grey Havens is a huge riff but there are countless others that are vital to the DNA of the show.

Some are obvious like the Rangers and Sinclair's Za'ha'dum fall and resurrection. Others are to do with the general structure of the novel-like story. And Sheridan/Delenn's romance is a clear homage to Beren and Luthien (My favourite chapter of Tolkien's!).

[Nagisa Furukawa]

DalekJim wrote:

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I'm a Tolkien purist through and through. Babylon 5 shows huge influence from Tolkien's legendarium and is undoubtedly its biggest influence. JMS' online comments consistently reference LOTR as a comparison and influence. Nagisa is right in that having the elder races leave the younger ones for the Grey Havens is a huge riff but there are countless others that are vital to the DNA of the show.

Some are obvious like the Rangers and Sinclair's Za'ha'dum fall and resurrection. Others are to do with the general structure of the novel-like story. And Sheridan/Delenn's romance is a clear homage to Beren and Luthien (My favourite chapter of Tolkien's!).

Indeed. The Foundation series and Lensman and the like are definitely influences (as is the work of Alfred Bester on the way he uses telepaths and I'm not even counting the reuse of Bester's name), but the Lord of the Rings is clearly one of the biggest and most important influences on the series. The only influence? No. Is it a 1-to-1 comparison? No. But to similarly dismiss it as a couple name lifts and Elric quoting Gandalf is heavily understating its influence too.