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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old March 15 2013, 08:05 PM   #1
Turd Ferguson
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So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

In Star Trek it was established that red matter could be utilized to create black holes. We saw this when the Hobis supernova was sucked up and when Vulcan imploded on itself. My question is, how long do these black holes last? Are they temporary, only lasting long enough to serve the plot (sucking in the supernova, pulling in Nero and Spock, Vulcan, the Narada, etc.), or are they a permanent fixture?

If so, wouldn't the black hole RIGHT NEXT TO EARTH be a massive threat to the Federation? Or did it get closed up when the Enterprise detonated its warp cores?
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Old March 15 2013, 08:11 PM   #2
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

Turd Ferguson wrote: View Post
Are they temporary, only lasting long enough to serve the plot

And there's your answer.
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Old March 15 2013, 08:25 PM   #3
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

Black holes aren't permanent anyways. They all evaporate via Hawking radiation. Small ones will dissipate sooner than large ones, and the ones made by red matter are almost certainly tiny and short-lived.

Also, the plot would suggest they're temporary anyway.
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Old March 15 2013, 08:36 PM   #4
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

Spock warped away from Earth and Nero followed. So that huge black hole was outside the solar system anyway.

What of those poor Delta Vega monsters, now the planet's orbit will have been slightly altered by the absence of Vucan?
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Old March 15 2013, 08:50 PM   #5
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Spock warped away from Earth and Nero followed. So that huge black hole was outside the solar system anyway.

What of those poor Delta Vega monsters, now the planet's orbit will have been slightly altered by the absence of Vucan?
The drakoulias and hengrauggi? Yes, an inevitable orbit change would cause the climate of their planet to change considerably to be sure. In response to the new harsh conditions, the angry beasts have hunkered down and taken up reading Melville. In about 15 years, they'll be ready to meet Kirk, again.
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Old March 15 2013, 09:20 PM   #6
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

By that time Delta Vega will be a garden spot.

...and so the scales balance themselves.
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Old March 15 2013, 09:35 PM   #7
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

Rain is wet. The sky is blue. Star Trek has plot holes. More red matter seems to create a larger singularity. It took 20 years for the black hole "lightning storm" to get Prime Spock into the story. So it doesn't close. It doesn't make any sense and any explanation would be speculation because the filmmakers have never discussed it.
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Old March 15 2013, 09:59 PM   #8
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Spock warped away from Earth and Nero followed. So that huge black hole was outside the solar system anyway.
Position matters less than trajectory. A black hole in the solar system might never collide with Earth.
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Old March 15 2013, 11:06 PM   #9
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

The black hole created by red matter that destroyed Vulcan evaporated.
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Old March 15 2013, 11:38 PM   #10
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

OphaClyde wrote: View Post
The black hole created by red matter that destroyed Vulcan evaporated.
I wondered about that. It seems red matter black holes don't behave like naturally occurring ones. In fact they don't seem to be anything more than very local destroyers instead of the galactic neighbourhood annihilators you would imagine them to be. Earth was never in danger provided the bomb wasn't planted in its core.
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Old March 16 2013, 12:23 AM   #11
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

Deckerd wrote: View Post
OphaClyde wrote: View Post
The black hole created by red matter that destroyed Vulcan evaporated.
I wondered about that. It seems red matter black holes don't behave like naturally occurring ones.
That much seems clear. If they did, rather than travel back in time/to another universe, Nero and Old Spock would have just died horribly.
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Old March 16 2013, 01:11 AM   #12
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

Romulan starships in TNG were known to be powered by a quantum singularity. So in a way this wasn't anything all that new. It's as much of a problem, with or wthout lasting repercussions, as the writers want it to be. How many Romulan Birds of Prey blew up and nobody ever quickly mounted a rescue attempt of a nearby planet, because that implosion would grow and grow, engulfing nearby solar systems as it went. Assuming that doesn't take millions of years to expand and is essentially like worrying about what will happen, when the Sun begins to die.

Presumably after the Black Hole had finished feeding, it decreased back down to a subatomic scale and then disappeared from the universe altogether.
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Old March 16 2013, 01:21 AM   #13
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
Rain is wet. The sky is blue. Star Trek has plot holes. More red matter seems to create a singularity. It took 20 years for the black hole "lightning storm" to get Prime Spock into the story. So it doesn't close. It doesn't make any sense and any explanation would be speculation because the filmmakers have never discussed it.
It's pretty clear in the film that the "lightning storm" that Spock came out of was not in the same place as the one that Nero came out of. It appears that they just form and then dissipate quickly.
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Old March 16 2013, 01:39 AM   #14
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Spock warped away from Earth and Nero followed. So that huge black hole was outside the solar system anyway.
That’s essentially correct although my impression was that they warped to the last known location of the Enterprise (near Saturn).

What of those poor Delta Vega monsters, now the planet's orbit will have been slightly altered by the absence of Vulcan?
DVD commentary says ships that enter RM black holes have to navigate around the singularity. Matter falling in probably couldn't do that so the one at Vulcan is probably left with the mass of Vulcan. Thus Dalta Vega would continue to orbit the "Vulcan" black hole.  
It would seem reasonable to speculate that RM black holes that don't swallow much conventional matter evaporate very quickly in line with "ordinary" mass/time/evaporation "rules". I just can't remeber how long it is supposed to take a planetary size black hole to evaporate. Quite some time I'm guessing so I don't think you need worry too much about the DV monsters.


Andymator wrote: View Post
It's pretty clear in the film that the "lightning storm" that Spock came out of was not in the same place as the one that Nero came out of. It appears that they just form and then dissipate quickly.
That is the "other end of the wormhole", not the black hole itself, if you see what I mean. Perhaps that end only "opens" when something goes through?
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Old March 16 2013, 05:11 AM   #15
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Re: So... about that black hole right next to Earth...

UFO wrote: View Post
That is the "other end of the wormhole", not the black hole itself, if you see what I mean. Perhaps that end only "opens" when something goes through?
Yeah, that's kind of how I took it too, but that's a little ambiguous in the movie.
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