Ziyal - good addition or better left out?

Dal Rassak · February 22 2013, 01:12 PM

Personally I'm in the latter camp. I really only liked her character the first time she showed up, in "Indiscretion".

It also didn't help that they had the character played by three different actresses; I still don't know why that was necessary. For me, Cyia Batten, the first actress to take on the role, and who only played her in I think two episodes, was the only one who could make Ziyal anything near likeable.
She gave her the kind of artless innocence that the writers seemed to be going for, and which in my opinion the other two didn't pull off, making her come across as naive and annoying instead.

I don't believe the character worked well overall, mainly because I find it impossible to follow why a man so consumed by ambition, and furthermore a man with seven legal offspring, should be prepared to lose his standing and reputation and have his family disown him all for the sake of one illigitimate Bajoran half-breed. And that given he was prepared to kill her in order not to risk those very things.

Also I have no idea what she was doing on the freighter and certainly not on the damn station during a war! She should just have been packed off to safety in the Federation somewhere...

Basically I shared Damar's opinion of her in just about every respect and I cheered when he executed her.
(I can see I'll be making friends among Ziyal fans here...)

heavy lids · February 22 2013, 01:35 PM

I really liked the character, and I preferred the third actress over the other two. The freighter she was on was meant for carrying cargo. Dukat just decided to use it to fight Klingons until he captured the Bird of Prey. And there were A LOT of civilians on the station during war-time. Not that unusual.

Gul Re'jal · February 22 2013, 02:25 PM

Dal Rassak wrote:

Personally I'm in the latter camp. I really only liked her character the first time she showed up, in "Indiscretion".

It also didn't help that they had the character played by three different actresses; I still don't know why that was necessary. For me, Cyia Batten, the first actress to take on the role, and who only played her in I think two episodes, was the only one who could make Ziyal anything near likeable.
She gave her the kind of artless innocence that the writers seemed to be going for, and which in my opinion the other two didn't pull off, making her come across as naive and annoying instead.

I didn't mind the first two actresses, but I hated Melanie Smith's Ziyal. The actress did a really bad job in giving her life and the character was a naive half-wit, getting on my nerves each time she opened her mouth and made those idiotic, astonished facial expressions

Dal Rassak wrote:

I don't believe the character worked well overall, mainly because I find it impossible to follow why a man so consumed by ambition, and furthermore a man with seven legal offspring, should be prepared to lose his standing and reputation and have his family disown him all for the sake of one illigitimate Bajoran half-breed. And that given he was prepared to kill her in order not to risk those very things.

Exactly! I could never understand that either. It just didn't make sense.
And later, when his position was better and it seemed like he got his family back (one of the speeches suggested that he was on good terms at least with one of his sons), he still didn't seem to care at all for his seven kids and cared only about her. WTF?

Dal Rassak wrote:

Basically I shared Damar's opinion of her in just about every respect and I cheered when he executed her.

Give me high five!

Relayer1 · February 22 2013, 03:42 PM

I liked the character - she was one of the reasons Dukat was not just a two dimensional bad guy.

SSOASS · February 22 2013, 05:16 PM

I think her character wsa a good catalyst for some interesting stuff between Dukat/Kira, Dukat/Garak, and Dukat/Damar ... plus she has some nice scenes individually with Kira, Dukat, and Garak ... Overall, I see her as a positive for the show.

JirinPanthosa · February 22 2013, 09:59 PM

I think it made sense for her to be on the station. It was the only place she wouldn't be looked upon as a mongrel or an enemy, and quality of life concerns had to override any increased for her being on the station instead of the planet.

Some of the way she was used was a little awkward, like her odd romance with Garak, but I don't find Dukat's affection for her awkward. His legitimate children had been jaded and hardened by Cardassian culture, and he was probably an absentee father. He was a fact to his legitimate children, a part of their status, rather than a loving presence. Ziyal was the only one in the galaxy capable of openly giving him affection.

TheRoyalFamily · February 22 2013, 10:58 PM

Ziyal was basically the personification of Dukat's obsession with Bajor, so of course she would be extra special to him.

Relayer1 · February 23 2013, 12:01 AM

TheRoyalFamily wrote:

Ziyal was basically the personification of Dukat's obsession with Bajor, so of course she would be extra special to him.

Ooohhh that's good. Hadn't thought of it like that...

Tora Ziyal · February 23 2013, 12:10 AM

Of course you all know how I feel about her.

Relayer1 wrote:

I liked the character - she was one of the reasons Dukat was not just a two dimensional bad guy.

This.

SSOASS wrote:

I think her character wsa a good catalyst for some interesting stuff between Dukat/Kira, Dukat/Garak, and Dukat/Damar ... plus she has some nice scenes individually with Kira, Dukat, and Garak ... Overall, I see her as a positive for the show.

And this.

Relayer1 wrote:

TheRoyalFamily wrote:

Ziyal was basically the personification of Dukat's obsession with Bajor, so of course she would be extra special to him.

Ooohhh that's good. Hadn't thought of it like that...

Me, neither. Interesting!

BennyRussel · February 23 2013, 12:37 AM

Dal Rassak wrote:

It also didn't help that they had the character played by three different actresses; I still don't know why that was necessary.
...

They wanted an older actress to play her since they wanted her to have a relationship with Garak and they did not want it to seem predatory (toward a young girl.) The 2nd actress did not react well to the makeup.

Dal Rassak wrote:

Also I have no idea what she was doing on the freighter and certainly not on the damn station during a war! She should just have been packed off to safety in the Federation somewhere...

Where was she supposed to go? She was uncomfortable on Bajor because she was half-Cardassian. She was hated on Cardassia because she was half-Bajoran. She was a young woman alone.

Should she have struck out on her own on Ferenginar? Vulcan? Earth? She had someone who cared for her on DS9 (Nerys) and she was trying to cling to a relationship with her father.

DS9 made sense as her home. Also, Bajor signed a non-aggression pact with the Dominion so the station was probably safer than most UFP planets. At least Bajor was a quick shuttle ride away.

The Regent · February 24 2013, 10:53 AM

Personally, I found her character grating over time. I didn't understand her choosing Garak over her father after all he'd done and gave up for her. She just kept on betraying him the moment she felt a little angry then it was right back to him because she couldn't stay mad. I found her death useful for the BSOD and Despair Event Horizon that Dukat underwent but I felt it weird that Garak didn't have one as well. I understand that, being a spy, he would hide it but he didn't even bring it up when he was fighting The Dominion on Cardassia. It was like it was like she was here for a moment then gone. I thought the character was good in theory but not well executed by the writers.

Okay, good first post.

Seven of Five · February 24 2013, 10:59 AM

I'm glad she was there. I think her introduction at the end of Indiscretion left a lot to be desired, but from then on I enjoyed seeing her. It brought out some of the good in Dukat, as well as being a friend for Kira, and something more for Garak. (That in itself was fun in the way Dukat became highly wound at the thought of something happening between the two.)

She was perhaps written a bit too earnestly, which made her an easy target for death. I loved what effect this had on Dukat in Waltz, but then his direction after that it meandered into strangeness. But that's another story.

WesleysDisciple · February 24 2013, 04:21 PM

I appreciated the romeo and juliet romance she had with Garak. i'll admit that straight out.

Sigokat · February 25 2013, 04:36 AM

Damn I never even realized that Ziyal was played by three diffierent actresses!

But I thought she was a good addition at first and then it just seemed she showed up every now and then, but for what purpose I couldn't really tell. I did think the relationship between her and Garak was a little...odd...but I always saw Ziyal as a younger child, maybe late teens early twenties.

Dal Rassak · February 25 2013, 12:14 PM

I've just thought of something else... I reckon Dukat got that attached to her not just because of her being symbolic of his whole Bajor obsession (good point, Royal Family), but because she is actually willing to believe he's perfect; she wants and needs to believe that. Being such an essentially narcissist individual as Dukat is, that kind of adoration on a daily basis would certainly go down like honeyed wine...

February 22 2013, 01:12 PM	#1
Dal Rassak Lieutenant Commander Location: Terok Nor	Ziyal - good addition or better left out? Personally I'm in the latter camp. I really only liked her character the first time she showed up, in "Indiscretion". It also didn't help that they had the character played by three different actresses; I still don't know why that was necessary. For me, Cyia Batten, the first actress to take on the role, and who only played her in I think two episodes, was the only one who could make Ziyal anything near likeable. She gave her the kind of artless innocence that the writers seemed to be going for, and which in my opinion the other two didn't pull off, making her come across as naive and annoying instead. I don't believe the character worked well overall, mainly because I find it impossible to follow why a man so consumed by ambition, and furthermore a man with seven legal offspring, should be prepared to lose his standing and reputation and have his family disown him all for the sake of one illigitimate Bajoran half-breed. *And that given he was prepared to kill her in order not* to risk those very things.** Also I have no idea what she was doing on the freighter and certainly not on the damn station during a war! She should just have been packed off to safety in the Federation somewhere... Basically I shared Damar's opinion of her in just about every respect and I cheered when he executed her. (I can see I'll be making friends among Ziyal fans here...) __________________ "Trust is good; control is better"

February 22 2013, 01:35 PM	#2
heavy lids Lieutenant Commander Location: Denver	Re: Ziyal - good addition or better left out? I really liked the character, and I preferred the third actress over the other two. The freighter she was on was meant for carrying cargo. Dukat just decided to use it to fight Klingons until he captured the Bird of Prey. And there were A LOT of civilians on the station during war-time. Not that unusual. __________________ "Divine intervention is...unlikely" - The Doctor

February 22 2013, 03:42 PM	#4
Relayer1 Fleet Captain Location: The Black Country, England	Re: Ziyal - good addition or better left out? I liked the character - she was one of the reasons Dukat was not just a two dimensional bad guy. __________________ Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...

February 22 2013, 05:16 PM	#5
SSOASS Ensign	Re: Ziyal - good addition or better left out? I think her character wsa a good catalyst for some interesting stuff between Dukat/Kira, Dukat/Garak, and Dukat/Damar ... plus she has some nice scenes individually with Kira, Dukat, and Garak ... Overall, I see her as a positive for the show.

February 22 2013, 09:59 PM	#6
JirinPanthosa Captain	Re: Ziyal - good addition or better left out? I think it made sense for her to be on the station. It was the only place she wouldn't be looked upon as a mongrel or an enemy, and quality of life concerns had to override any increased for her being on the station instead of the planet. Some of the way she was used was a little awkward, like her odd romance with Garak, but I don't find Dukat's affection for her awkward. His legitimate children had been jaded and hardened by Cardassian culture, and he was probably an absentee father. He was a fact to his legitimate children, a part of their status, rather than a loving presence. Ziyal was the only one in the galaxy capable of openly giving him affection.

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February 22 2013, 10:58 PM	#7
TheRoyalFamily Fleet Captain Location: Mentone	Re: Ziyal - good addition or better left out? Ziyal was basically the personification of Dukat's obsession with Bajor, so of course she would be extra special to him. __________________ You perceive wrongly. I feel unimaginable happiness wasting time talking with women. I'm that type of human.

February 24 2013, 10:53 AM	#11
The Regent Cadet	Re: Ziyal - good addition or better left out? Personally, I found her character grating over time. I didn't understand her choosing Garak over her father after all he'd done and gave up for her. She just kept on betraying him the moment she felt a little angry then it was right back to him because she couldn't stay mad. I found her death useful for the BSOD and Despair Event Horizon that Dukat underwent but I felt it weird that Garak didn't have one as well. I understand that, being a spy, he would hide it but he didn't even bring it up when he was fighting The Dominion on Cardassia. It was like it was like she was here for a moment then gone. I thought the character was good in theory but not well executed by the writers. Okay, good first post.

February 24 2013, 10:59 AM	#12
Seven of Five Commodore Location: Staffordshire, United Kingdom	Re: Ziyal - good addition or better left out? I'm glad she was there. I think her introduction at the end of Indiscretion left a lot to be desired, but from then on I enjoyed seeing her. It brought out some of the good in Dukat, as well as being a friend for Kira, and something more for Garak. (That in itself was fun in the way Dukat became highly wound at the thought of something happening between the two.) She was perhaps written a bit too earnestly, which made her an easy target for death. I loved what effect this had on Dukat in Waltz, but then his direction after that it meandered into strangeness. But that's another story. __________________ I love how coffee makes me feel. It's like my heart is trying to hug my brain!

February 24 2013, 04:21 PM	#13
WesleysDisciple Lieutenant Commander	Re: Ziyal - good addition or better left out? I appreciated the romeo and juliet romance she had with Garak. i'll admit that straight out.

February 25 2013, 04:36 AM	#14
Sigokat Lieutenant Commander Location: Fort Bragg, NC but from Chicago (currently deployed)	Re: Ziyal - good addition or better left out? Damn I never even realized that Ziyal was played by three diffierent actresses! But I thought she was a good addition at first and then it just seemed she showed up every now and then, but for what purpose I couldn't really tell. I did think the relationship between her and Garak was a little...odd...but I always saw Ziyal as a younger child, maybe late teens early twenties.

February 25 2013, 12:14 PM	#15
Dal Rassak Lieutenant Commander Location: Terok Nor	Re: Ziyal - good addition or better left out? I've just thought of something else... I reckon Dukat got that attached to her not just because of her being symbolic of his whole Bajor obsession (good point, Royal Family), but because she is actually willing to believe he's perfect; she wants and needs to believe that. Being such an essentially narcissist individual as Dukat is, that kind of adoration on a daily basis would certainly go down like honeyed wine... __________________ "Trust is good; control is better"