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Old November 4 2013, 03:38 PM   #106
Foxhot
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

DarthPipes wrote: View Post
Good point about the Bonzo battle. Probably because of today's sensibilities but Ender doesn't end up killing the first bully and what happens with Bonzo comes across as an accident. You could have Ender killing those two in the books but not in movies/television nowadays. The actor who played Bonzo was comically shorter than Asa Butterfield though I have to admit I found him hilarious and I think the audience I was with did as well.
I thought that also with, ahem, Bonzo. I looked at him, trying to figure out hios actual age, then thought ''John Turturro had a kid?''

Today's sensibilities can definitely neuter the point of an original work. Personally, I think the name of Bonzo has absolutely no sensibility here. It doesn't bring on the serious. But bedtime for him anyhow....
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Old November 4 2013, 04:19 PM   #107
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

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although that definitely makes it a dick move by the adults. If they knew they were real, could have told them to flee once Ender decided they weren't useful anymore and he abandoned them.
They explain that in the book, too. All the soldiers who went to the Bugger home world knew it was a one way trip. They sacrificed their lives, and would do whatever Ender asked of them, even go to their deaths.
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Old November 4 2013, 04:24 PM   #108
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

I know, have read the whole series plenty of times. Still doesn't mean that one of the adults couldn't have had the ships disappear from the simulation and make a run for it. Prepared to go to their deaths doesn't mean excited to die for absolutely no reason other than a kid is bored with a video game. They'd have been onboard for a suicide run, less excited about just being thrown away for no gain.
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Old November 4 2013, 05:13 PM   #109
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

I just meant the book explains those things, but the movie fails to.
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Old November 4 2013, 05:39 PM   #110
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

foxhot wrote: View Post
DarthPipes wrote: View Post
Good point about the Bonzo battle. Probably because of today's sensibilities but Ender doesn't end up killing the first bully and what happens with Bonzo comes across as an accident. You could have Ender killing those two in the books but not in movies/television nowadays. The actor who played Bonzo was comically shorter than Asa Butterfield though I have to admit I found him hilarious and I think the audience I was with did as well.
I thought that also with, ahem, Bonzo. I looked at him, trying to figure out hios actual age, then thought ''John Turturro had a kid?''

....
I couldn't figure out where I had seen him before.. Then my wife reminded me that he was the main protagonist for Hanna Montana's brother on the tv show... Yes, having a young daughter, I became well versed with the show.. gag...

Having not read the books or knowing the story, I was highly impressed with the movie... Great little twist at the end, but I'll agree with the tought that the ending was rushed... Sent a good message at the end.
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Old November 4 2013, 06:22 PM   #111
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

Hope to go see the movie this week. My son got me to read Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow when he was younger. Really enjoyed the books and am looking forward to see the movie. I know movies rarely follow the book precisely and from what I have read here, there are both good and bad views on it. Oh well. Will go with an open mind and see what it's all about.
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Old November 4 2013, 07:25 PM   #112
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

I enjoyed it quite a bit more than I expected. I liked the book but was never an over-the-top fan (never bothered with any of the sequels/side stories, etc) so my expectations weren't particularly high, which probably helped.

I walked away thinking it was a decent military sci-fi tale with excellent effects and a bit more substance than your average action movie. That was enough for me.
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Old November 5 2013, 12:57 AM   #113
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

Same here. I never read the novel, but guessed the last simulation was the real battle anyway. Rather fitting with all the controversy over drones. A better story about that was included in the MOON DVD Blu-ray offering.

I liked the movie. The only problem is that the entry way would have zero gravity as well--being near the hub. Go straight and if no one tackles you, you drift to the far gate if they don't think to build that wall.
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Old November 5 2013, 01:40 AM   #114
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

publiusr wrote: View Post
The only problem is that the entry way would have zero gravity as well--being near the hub. Go straight and if no one tackles you, you drift to the far gate if they don't think to build that wall.
Do they not show the "formation" battle in the film, where Ender "kills" his soldiers and uses them as a "dead" human flying wedge to attack the gate straight on?
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Old November 5 2013, 01:57 AM   #115
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

The book is one of my all-time favorites (along with the sequel Speaker for the Dead). By comparison, the movie is a B minus, imo.
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Old November 5 2013, 04:05 AM   #116
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
The only problem is that the entry way would have zero gravity as well--being near the hub. Go straight and if no one tackles you, you drift to the far gate if they don't think to build that wall.
Do they not show the "formation" battle in the film, where Ender "kills" his soldiers and uses them as a "dead" human flying wedge to attack the gate straight on?
I had originally read a novella version in Analog magazine before reading the full novel and liked the shorter version better. But the movie still missed the point about what a burden the kids were put through.

My partner at the movie had no knowledge of Ender's Game going in but commented during the battle about Ender's sacrifice of the fleet as being similar to his battle school fight.
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Old November 5 2013, 04:32 AM   #117
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

publiusr wrote: View Post
The only problem is that the entry way would have zero gravity as well--being near the hub. Go straight and if no one tackles you, you drift to the far gate if they don't think to build that wall.
The book explains that the hallway leading to the gates is fitted with gravity plating, reverse engineered from Bugger/Formic technology. Ender asks the same question you do. The battle room also has a random configuration of cube "stars" suspended for cover and strategy... except when the teachers start screwing with Ender and giving him unfair star configurations.

There's also supposed to be 9 battle rooms, not just one, and because of this, I pictured the Battle School space-station being much larger. The barracks have 40 soldiers each plus a commander, and there are 21 armies, and an unknown number of "launchie" groups (I think 20 soldiers each). That's at a minimum 900 students, likely over 1000... Plus teachers and support staff.

The Armies (except Ender's when he becomes a commander) practice formations so no one can just go straight for the gate (also, in the book you're required to open the gate by touching all four corners simultaneously, so it requires 5 soldiers anyway, otherwise the game ends in a draw). Most armies neutralize all opponents first so they can safely open the gate. The way he describes formations, they come across as analogous to the stupid way the Redcoats fought in the Revolutionary War. Ender shows his tactical genius by abandoning them in favor of a guerilla approach, giving broad discretion to his platoon leaders instead.

In Ender's last battle (against two armies), he says screw it and just goes for the gate immediately, ignoring the enemy. He launches a decoy formation and sends 5 others to head for the unguarded gate. The other armies didn't know you could even do that, because no one had ever tried it before. This actually foreshadows the ending of the book: the only reason Ender tries it is because he gives up due to the fight not being fair.

They totally whiffed on the significance of "The enemy's gate is down" in the movie.
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Old November 5 2013, 06:54 PM   #118
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
The only problem is that the entry way would have zero gravity as well--being near the hub. Go straight and if no one tackles you, you drift to the far gate if they don't think to build that wall.
Do they not show the "formation" battle in the film, where Ender "kills" his soldiers and uses them as a "dead" human flying wedge to attack the gate straight on?
I had originally read a novella version in Analog magazine before reading the full novel and liked the shorter version better. But the movie still missed the point about what a burden the kids were put through.

My partner at the movie had no knowledge of Ender's Game going in but commented during the battle about Ender's sacrifice of the fleet as being similar to his battle school fight.

Agreed. I felt with the compressed timeline of Ender's training, you really lost the grind that he went through. Years of training, sometimes fighting two battles in one day and somehow finding ways to win every time. He barely could get himself out of bed for the final battle. I don't think we got the full grasp of just how much pressure he was under.

For the record, I wish they would have used the term buggers because it's a lot more memorable than Formics. Not to mention calling them buggers instead of a more formal name is supposed to be an effort to dehumanize the enemy. Which is clearly what Command wanted.
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Old November 5 2013, 07:57 PM   #119
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

DarthPipes wrote: View Post

Agreed. I felt with the compressed timeline of Ender's training, you really lost the grind that he went through. Years of training, sometimes fighting two battles in one day and somehow finding ways to win every time. He barely could get himself out of bed for the final battle. I don't think we got the full grasp of just how much pressure he was under.
I think you got the idea that he was under a great deal of pressure, just not on the same scale or as well described as in the book. That simply was not going to happen.
For the record, I wish they would have used the term buggers because it's a lot more memorable than Formics. Not to mention calling them buggers instead of a more formal name is supposed to be an effort to dehumanize the enemy. Which is clearly what Command wanted.
I'm split on this. I agree that "bugger" is a lot more memorable, but think it sounds really stupid, and is not a very imaginative racial slur. Plus, it would have really confused British people!
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Old November 5 2013, 11:28 PM   #120
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Re: Ender's Game (2013 Film)

If the military brass used Formics and the cadets used the term buggers (kids would use this term) then I would have been fine with it. Buggers is silly I won't disagree with that. But Formics is just dull and uninspiring.
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