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Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

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Old February 28 2013, 12:00 PM   #31
Metryq
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

Timo wrote: View Post
But not succumbing to setting 8, the vaporization of matter, would mean Yuta isn't made of matter!
A Krell id monster!
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Old March 2 2013, 08:50 PM   #32
publiusr
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

bryce wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
There was a prop of the ST V assault phaser that had a very tiny phaser inside the back somehow.
Yep!

In ST VI, this had a scope and rifle butt on it too.
It's my favorite--apart from the one piece Galaxy quest phaser--that was better than the ST II version--rather like the JJ version.

Now wasn't there a phaser for ST:TMP that was a bit fatter than the ST II flathead version?
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Old March 5 2013, 08:35 PM   #33
Timo
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

In ST VI, this had a scope and rifle butt on it too.
...Before it was decided that the assassin should masquerade as a Klingon, at which point the design was completely changed:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a.../tuchd2438.jpg

Nice touch on that stock, looking like the Klingon trefoil symbol! But the Starfleet phaser no longer remains as a component of that gun.

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Old March 6 2013, 02:16 AM   #34
Albertese
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

Yeah... the Scooby-Doo ending....

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Old March 6 2013, 01:33 PM   #35
Timo
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

I sort of liked that.

I mean, it's obvious that a plot to ignite war is not something both sides of the war would be jointly planning, not in good faith. There must be a backstabbing Plan B (indeed, Plan A) behind each side's participation in the seeming mutually accepted, joint plot. But it would have to be an intricate dance of mirrored moves and disingenuous maintaining of balance and appearances. So, just like General Chang fires "Federation" torpedoes at peacenik ships, Admiral Cartwright would be expected to be ordering "Klingon" snipers to assassinate doves...

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Old March 6 2013, 02:14 PM   #36
Cookies and Cake
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

They would have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for those meddling old folks!
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Old March 7 2013, 06:56 AM   #37
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

Timo wrote: View Post
Not succumbing to various levels of stun or kill just means Yuta isn't your average humanoid. But not succumbing to setting 8, the vaporization of matter, would mean Yuta isn't made of matter!
What would make you think that? She says her "cells were altered". For all we know one of the "upgrades" she got was a resistance to energy based weapons.
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Old March 7 2013, 09:26 AM   #38
Timo
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

This is based exclusively on the TNG Tech Manual backstage speculation on what settings the TNG Type 1, 2 and 3 phasers have. It is only according to that book that Type 1 has Level 8 as the highest setting, this being the first one capable of making matter go away. Only one choice available for Type 1 users in removing matter; that, plus eight more, for Type 2 or Type 3 users.

Now, Type 1 has been seen removing enemy soldiers out of existence (e.g. "Hide and Q"), as well as blasting holes in doors or other non-humanoid objects (e.g. "Too Short a Season"). It's demonstrably a diverse make-go-away tool. All with that one make-go-away setting! Even if Yuta were made of exotic materials, this wouldn't protect her from sustained Level 8 fire, which can thus be considered a "mercy killing" setting, something that is absolutely certain to work on her - eventually.

Sure, we have seen certain creatures or people resist phaser fire before. But none of those instances (Rogar in "The Hunted", MacDuff in "Conundrum" etc.) featured explicit use of Level 8 (or higher), the way "The Vengeance Factor" did.

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Old March 8 2013, 04:12 AM   #39
Saturn0660
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

Well, by that logic then ANYTHING you hit at level 8 will be "gone". And we know thats not true at all. I have no problems with anything not being "gone" at level 8.
I get where you are coming but think it makes it to easy to think it's always "gone".
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Old March 8 2013, 11:08 AM   #40
Timo
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

Well, by that logic then ANYTHING you hit at level 8 will be "gone". And we know that's not true at all.
Not true? How so? Are there examples of levels 8+ being used and the target not being removed from existence altogether?

Individual objects often simply get "gone" when phasered. Sometimes not, but IIRC never in a situation where we'd know of the set level. High settings in TNG are quoted on occasion (Level 10 in "Aquiel", Level 16 in "Frame of Mind" and "Chain of Command"), and they create holes in dense material, apparently by this mysterious "vaporization" or "continuum disruption" process because the edges of the hole do not get hot or anything. The material is indeed simply "gone".

The one exception to this is listed at Memory Alpha: in DS9 "The Forsaken", the (Type 2) phaser setting referred to as "maximum" failed to penetrate a physical wall with "toranium inlay". This sounds like the material toranium (yes, it's a material and not a fancy shielding technology, as it is a plausible bulk cargo later on in "Second Skin") won't be "gone" with a hit. But technically we don't get to hear what this "maximum" setting would have been - absolute highest notch on the scale, or the highest allowed by relevant regulations.

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Old March 8 2013, 03:08 PM   #41
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

Because if that were the case then ship based battles would be over very fast indeed.. One can only guess the a TypeX phaser mounted on a ship is waaaay more powerful then a hand type. Yet, we've many many time where the phasers do no damage whatsoever. Now you could argue "shields" took care of it.
But once those are down you'd think ships would look like swiss cheese. Or, just be "gone" all together.
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Old March 8 2013, 03:35 PM   #42
Timo
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

Because if that were the case then ship based battles would be over very fast indeed..
And indeed they are. Shields block phasers; if there are no shields, the hull will go away, as in ST2 where Khan cuts into the Enterprise and Kirk into the Reliant.

The behavior of the narrow phaser beam here is similar to that of high-setting hand phaser beams applied against walls: it creates a tunnel of emptiness in the target, rather than spreading the go-away effect from the impact point to the entire target. It's probably a mixture of parameters the user can select and physical laws that govern the propagation of the disappearing effect in various materials. Or whatnot.

Now, good phaser hits in the older shows quite often made ships "gone" altogether, although this generally involved a big fireball and implied that the narrow hole made by the phaser had reached something vulnerable. Modern ships just get Swiss-cheesed, such as in the DS9 battles.

Then there's the ability of the Defiant's "ablative armor" to resist phaser blasts to some degree. But the very name suggests that the armor indeed goes away when hit! It would be rather easy to imagine a material that welcomes the disappearance effect of a phaser beam and allows it to propagate - all of a tenth of an inch to the next layer or cell in the armor, where it meets a phase border it is reluctant to hop (much like the hand phaser vaporization effect prefers not to hop from an intruding Klingon to a starship floor). And the technobabble from "Past Tense" suggests that the ablative armor isn't exactly physical matter, but something more complicated than that.

Yuta might have been made of stern stuff, just like the rock that takes Level 16 to drill through in a practicable time. But Yuta is a small target, and anything that has any drilling effect at all should be done with her quickly enough: the extra oomph for speed that Worf selects in "Chain of Command" would not be needed. Yuta certainly is no starship wall!

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Old March 10 2013, 03:09 PM   #43
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

Indeed, however there is no reason to assume that all matter is effected the same by a phaser at a level. Thats why they goto 16. Just because you and I couldn't take a blast at 8 doesn't mean she couldn't take a hit or two.
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Old March 13 2013, 12:30 AM   #44
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

I figure that with the approach of the Dominion War, and the resulting more militant stance of Starfleet they were replaced with the type II as the standard sidearm for more power. The type I would be more for concealed carry, diplomatic security, etc.
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Old March 19 2013, 01:41 AM   #45
SoM
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Re: Whatever happened to Type I phasers

Lionheart wrote: View Post
I figure that with the approach of the Dominion War, and the resulting more militant stance of Starfleet they were replaced with the type II as the standard sidearm for more power. The type I would be more for concealed carry, diplomatic security, etc.
They practically disappeared long before Starfleet ever found out about the Dominion.

I tend to think it's a battery thing - the only reason to carry a Type 1 over a T2 is if you're trying to hide the fact you're carrying a phaser. But, y'know, any alien race worth its salt will scan for phasers with a tricorder-type instrument if they're concerned about it, so there's little point unless you're dealing exclusively with a pre-warp culture. Which you shouldn't show a phaser to because of the Prime Directive.

So, ultimately, where's the advantage in carrying a mini-phaser that has a smaller battery and thus fewer shots over a not-exactly-huge standard phaser?
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