Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

DavidLeeRoth · February 12 2013, 03:43 PM

I didn't see a specific thread talking about the subject, so I hope that this hasn't already been discussed to death.

If the Klingons appear in the new film with ridges, how will that be explained? Klingons in the mid-23rd century should not have cranial ridges! Wouldn't depicting Klingons with a ridged forehead in the new film be a slap in the face to Trek canon and history?

Abrams could argue that most people who see the film won't care or have even heard of the augment virus, but some fans will care and for the integrity of the franchise, the Klingons should not have cranial ridges.

King Daniel · February 12 2013, 03:50 PM

According to "Affliction"/"Divergence" one Klingon colony world was infected with the Augment virus. Therefore both smooth and bumpy Klingons should have co-existed in the Empire, even though we never saw it on TV or film (this was, however, depicted in the post-series Enterprise novels and a few old TOS ones too)

In Into Darkness we'll see about a dozen Klingons, but only 3 or 4 of them unmasked - and since what's under the masks of the others isn't revealed, some could very well be smooth-headed. So no continuity error, IMO.

Oso Blanco · February 12 2013, 03:50 PM

One could argue that not the whole Klingon population had been infected with the virus, and probably get away with it. There were other canon violations in the first movie that can't be explained away that easily, though.

Saul · February 12 2013, 03:56 PM

Fan wank: It could be that they wear those masks to cover up the fact that they have no ridges.

King Daniel · February 12 2013, 03:56 PM

Oso Blanco wrote:

There were other canon violations in the first movie that can't be explained away that easily, though.

Such as?

anh165 · February 12 2013, 04:06 PM

DavidLeeRoth wrote:

I didn't see a specific thread talking about the subject, so I hope that this hasn't already been discussed to death.

If the Klingons appear in the new film with ridges, how will that be explained? Klingons in the mid-23rd century should not have cranial ridges! Wouldn't depicting Klingons with a ridged forehead in the new film be a slap in the face to Trek canon and history?

Abrams could argue that most people who see the film won't care or have even heard of the augment virus, but some fans will care and for the integrity of the franchise, the Klingons should not have cranial ridges.

Artistic license?

DavidLeeRoth · February 12 2013, 04:18 PM

King Daniel wrote:

According to "Affliction"/"Divergence" one Klingon colony world was infected with the Augment virus. Therefore both smooth and bumpy Klingons should have co-existed in the Empire, even though we never saw it on TV or film (this was, however, depicted in the post-series Enterprise novels and a few old TOS ones too)

In Into Darkness we'll see about a dozen Klingons, but only 3 or 4 of them unmasked - and since what's under the masks of the others isn't revealed, some could very well be smooth-headed. So no continuity error, IMO.

That's a good, plausible explanation. Still, I would like to see some smoothed-headed Klingons. It would be a nice homage to TOS. Do we know for certain that there won't be any smoothed-headed Klingons?

The Stig · February 12 2013, 04:37 PM

There will be no 'smooth-headed' Klingons because the Enterprise episode arc that 'explained' the difference was stupid and pointless. Worf's joke in 'Trials and Tribble-ations' was explanation enough.

Gojira · February 12 2013, 04:38 PM

God I hope there are no smooth headed Klingons in this movie!!! I never saw the episode (can't even remember which show it was on) that explained the changes.

IMHO no explanation was ever needed. In the 60s the studio could not afford to make the Klingons look as they wanted to. Then during the movies and subsequent series when there was more money they could afford to make them look how they originally were supposed to look.

When I watch TOS I can suspend disbelief and imagine they look as they later were depicted.

I don't need to have all of these changes explained to me on the screen. I can use my imagination.

[/rant]

Mach5 · February 12 2013, 04:54 PM

Gojira wrote:

God I hope there are no smooth headed Klingons in this movie!!! I never saw the episode (can't even remember which show it was on) that explained the changes.

IMHO no explanation was ever needed. In the 60s the studio could not afford to make the Klingons look as they wanted to. Then during the movies and subsequent series when there was more money they could afford to make them look how they originally were supposed to look.

When I watch TOS I can suspend disbelief and imagine they look as they later were depicted.

I don't need to have all of these changes explained to me on the screen. I can use my imagination.
[/rant]

Exactly how I feel.

What about the Romulans, BTW? Honestly, I never saw the point to those V-shaped forehead ridges they got in TNG, and I was happy to see Abramsverse embracing the classic approach... Even though that's not technically the case, considering the amount of prosthetics Nero and CO. wore in that movie... But still.

anh165 · February 12 2013, 04:57 PM

Again it is artistic license and the audience's suspension of disbelief in regards to their appearance.

It seems here that some are only concerned about their appearance to comply interweb centric canon, they would rather have a ridge headed batleth waving, blood wine guzzling ape man than some well thought out rational and intelligent Klingon with a smooth forehead that has some relevance to the movie.

Ovation · February 12 2013, 04:58 PM

I didn't ever feel the need for an explanation, but I didn't mind the one they came up with in Enterprise. However, just as viruses don't usually infect an entire population, I would expect A) that smooth and ridged headed Klingons are around in this period and B) that there are enough of each that the absence of either is no big deal. This is really a tiny point over which to quibble.

Jackson_Roykirk · February 12 2013, 04:58 PM

DavidLeeRoth wrote:

If the Klingons appear in the new film with ridges, how will that be explained? Klingons in the mid-23rd century should not have cranial ridges! Wouldn't depicting Klingons with a ridged forehead in the new film be a slap in the face to Trek canon and history?

However they are shown -- smooth-headed or ridged -- it can all be explained the exact same way TMP explained the change from smooth to ridged.

Ovation · February 12 2013, 05:00 PM

Thank God they cut out that 20 minute lecture on viral mutations and its effects on internal Klingon politics and social policy, though. TMP was long enough as it was.

M'Sharak · February 12 2013, 05:29 PM

DavidLeeRoth wrote:

Abrams could argue that most people who see the film won't care or have even heard of the augment virus...

Why would he wish to make that argument, though?

DavidLeeRoth wrote:

... but some fans will care and for the integrity of the franchise, the Klingons should not have cranial ridges.

Some folks do have some interesting notions concerning "the integrity of the franchise" but, as has already been pointed out, nothing seen or said in any previous episode or movie precludes the appearance of bumpy-headed Klingons in the upcoming movie. Or smooth-headed Klingons. Or a mixture of both, plus some never-before-seen pointy-headed Klingons.

Bring 'em all on. "It is a good day to put your opponent's eye out with that pointy, pointy head!"

February 12 2013, 03:43 PM	#1
DavidLeeRoth Lieutenant	Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons I didn't see a specific thread talking about the subject, so I hope that this hasn't already been discussed to death. If the Klingons appear in the new film with ridges, how will that be explained? Klingons in the mid-23rd century should not have cranial ridges! Wouldn't depicting Klingons with a ridged forehead in the new film be a slap in the face to Trek canon and history? Abrams could argue that most people who see the film won't care or have even heard of the augment virus, but some fans will care and for the integrity of the franchise, the Klingons should not have cranial ridges.

February 12 2013, 03:50 PM	#2
King Daniel Admiral Location: KingDaniel has fallen Into Darkness (in England)	Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons According to "Affliction"/"Divergence" one Klingon colony world was infected with the Augment virus. Therefore both smooth and bumpy Klingons should have co-existed in the Empire, even though we never saw it on TV or film (this was, however, depicted in the post-series Enterprise novels and a few old TOS ones too) In Into Darkness we'll see about a dozen Klingons, but only 3 or 4 of them unmasked - and since what's under the masks of the others isn't revealed, some could very well be smooth-headed. So no continuity error, IMO. __________________ Star Trek Imponderables, fun video mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors. Episode One Episode Two

February 12 2013, 03:50 PM	#3
Oso Blanco Fleet Captain Location: Berlin, Germany	Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons One could argue that not the whole Klingon population had been infected with the virus, and probably get away with it. There were other canon violations in the first movie that can't be explained away that easily, though. __________________ Time is the fire in which we burn

February 12 2013, 03:56 PM	#4
Saul Rear Admiral Location: 東京	Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons Fan wank: It could be that they wear those masks to cover up the fact that they have no ridges. __________________ "It's not that you can see the strings, it's that 40 years later you're still looking at them." - Steven Moffat "This movie was big. Imagine how big it could have been with me in it?" William Shatner

February 12 2013, 04:37 PM	#8
The Stig Rear Admiral Location: Dunsfold Aerodrome, Surrey	Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons There will be no 'smooth-headed' Klingons because the Enterprise episode arc that 'explained' the difference was stupid and pointless. Worf's joke in 'Trials and Tribble-ations' was explanation enough. __________________ Some say that he can only type with his eyelashes and that he thinks YouTube is a self-service tyre repair shop. All we know is, he's called The Stig.

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February 12 2013, 04:38 PM	#9
Gojira Commodore Location: Stompin' on Tokyo	Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons God I hope there are no smooth headed Klingons in this movie!!! I never saw the episode (can't even remember which show it was on) that explained the changes. IMHO no explanation was ever needed. In the 60s the studio could not afford to make the Klingons look as they wanted to. Then during the movies and subsequent series when there was more money they could afford to make them look how they originally were supposed to look. When I watch TOS I can suspend disbelief and imagine they look as they later were depicted. I don't need to have all of these changes explained to me on the screen. I can use my imagination. [/rant] __________________ My Science Fiction-Fantasy movie review Blog: http://foleyfunfilmfacts.wordpress.com/

February 12 2013, 04:57 PM	#11
anh165 Lieutenant Commander	Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons Again it is artistic license and the audience's suspension of disbelief in regards to their appearance. It seems here that some are only concerned about their appearance to comply interweb centric canon, they would rather have a ridge headed batleth waving, blood wine guzzling ape man than some well thought out rational and intelligent Klingon with a smooth forehead that has some relevance to the movie.

February 12 2013, 04:58 PM	#12
Ovation Vice Admiral Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)	Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons I didn't ever feel the need for an explanation, but I didn't mind the one they came up with in Enterprise. However, just as viruses don't usually infect an entire population, I would expect A) that smooth and ridged headed Klingons are around in this period and B) that there are enough of each that the absence of either is no big deal. This is really a tiny point over which to quibble.

February 12 2013, 05:00 PM	#14
Ovation Vice Admiral Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)	Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons Thank God they cut out that 20 minute lecture on viral mutations and its effects on internal Klingon politics and social policy, though. TMP was long enough as it was.