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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old March 1 2013, 10:00 PM   #76
C.E. Evans
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Re: Direct-to-DVD Trek movies?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
How to turn ST watching into "an event" again?
By limiting how much Trek is out there, which is what the current movies have done.

I think you can have either movies or a TV series, but not both anymore.
Of course you can have both, if they are geared to appeal to distinct audiences, which given the way movies and TV are splitting off into completely different businesses, is a given anyway.
I really don't think Trek can have both a TV series and movies on simultaneously anymore without it eventually being a repeat of what happened last time--it gradually loses its novelty, mainstream audiences get their fill of it and tune out, and people start talking about "franchise fatigue."

But I do agree that it could work if the TV series is indeed for a distinct audience and is really more or less its own thing from the movies--such as an animated series aimed for a younger crowd. Spider-man, the Avengers, Transformers, and G.I. Joe are all movie franchises with separate animated shows geared more towards kids. I could definitely see the next Trek series being like that.
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Old March 1 2013, 10:09 PM   #77
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Re: Direct-to-DVD Trek movies?

People seem to keep talking about an animated show, for some reason. I think it's a terrible idea. In theory it could be great, but in practice the Western perception of animated material is almost universally that it's only appropriate for comedy and kids' shows. I know you're suggesting that it be aimed at kids, C.E. Evans, but personally I have no interest in kids' shows generally, and not at all in a Trek-based kids' show.

I'm not saying that it couldn't succeed commercially, mind you, just that I very much doubt I'd watch it.
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Old March 1 2013, 10:34 PM   #78
C.E. Evans
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Re: Direct-to-DVD Trek movies?

yousirname wrote: View Post
People seem to keep talking about an animated show, for some reason. I think it's a terrible idea. In theory it could be great, but in practice the Western perception of animated material is almost universally that it's only appropriate for comedy and kids' shows. I know you're suggesting that it be aimed at kids, C.E. Evans, but personally I have no interest in kids' shows generally, and not at all in a Trek-based kids' show.

I'm not saying that it couldn't succeed commercially, mind you, just that I very much doubt I'd watch it.
It wouldn't be aimed at you, but rather at kids and those that are still kids at heart and would watch an animated series just as much they would a live-action one.

In regards to kids, though, it would be a way of reaching out to a different demographic and diversifying and expanding the Trek brand the same way Star Wars and the various comic book superhero properties have.
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Old March 2 2013, 03:42 AM   #79
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Re: Direct-to-DVD Trek movies?

yousirname wrote: View Post
People seem to keep talking about an animated show, for some reason. I think it's a terrible idea. In theory it could be great, but in practice the Western perception of animated material is almost universally that it's only appropriate for comedy and kids' shows. I know you're suggesting that it be aimed at kids, C.E. Evans, but personally I have no interest in kids' shows generally, and not at all in a Trek-based kids' show.

I'm not saying that it couldn't succeed commercially, mind you, just that I very much doubt I'd watch it.
Have you seen "Star Wars: The Clone Wars"? That show is well liked by much of the teen and adult SW fanbase and it is a big enough success to have gone on for several seasons now. A big plus is that as an animated series it is much cheaper to do compared to a live action series.

It is keeping interest in the SW brand alive until the next SW movies are released.
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Old March 2 2013, 06:58 AM   #80
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Re: Direct-to-DVD Trek movies?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Forget families, TV has splintered into niche tastes and the trend is towards more of the same in the future.
But "Event Television" can still bring together a family to view together: Down Under, "Big Brother" came back after a "franchise fatigue" hiatus - not exactly "quality" family viewing, but it rated very well. And then we had a local version of "The Voice" and those ubiquitous cooking contest shows. As a teacher, I know the types of group viewings these shows brought. A two-part mini-series can also do very well.

All of these shows have been very popular with mixed-age households - and these are attractive because a cross-section of advertising markets are available, and related "TV tie-in" products sell well because one family members buys it for a different family member.

Niche viewing can be a very lonely experience. I can see a rebellion against it happening eventually.
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Old March 2 2013, 10:20 AM   #81
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Re: Direct-to-DVD Trek movies?

Dream wrote: View Post
Have you seen "Star Wars: The Clone Wars"? That show is well liked by much of the teen and adult SW fanbase and it is a big enough success to have gone on for several seasons now. A big plus is that as an animated series it is much cheaper to do compared to a live action series.

It is keeping interest in the SW brand alive until the next SW movies are released.
I've heard of it but not seen it. The first three films are so wildly popular that I'm not sure TCW is actually doing anything in particular (I think it's just capitalising on the innate popularity).

There was 15 years between Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace. I seem to recall from my childhood a pretty dismal 'adventures of 3PO and R2' Saturday morning cartoon, but it's hard to say that it played any particular role in the anticipation that led up to TPM's release.
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Old March 2 2013, 11:32 PM   #82
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Direct-to-DVD Trek movies?

I really don't think Trek can have both a TV series and movies on simultaneously anymore without it eventually being a repeat of what happened last time--it gradually loses its novelty, mainstream audiences get their fill of it and tune out, and people start talking about "franchise fatigue."
Why does it have to be the same? I'm envisioning something very different in content. The similarity would be that Starfleet is always present, and the production design elements would also be similar. You'd see the same visual cues in uniforms and sets, not so glitzy on a TV budget but still respectable.

For the movies: Kirk & crew have a wild, colorful, violent, zap-pow adventure for two hours every three years.

For streaming: a different set of characters, Starfleet and otherwise, in a more plot and character focused context, with more talking and less action than the movies and a plotline that unspools over time in a serialized fashion like cable shows.

Maybe they're colonists on some alien world with some kind of unknown danger that only emerges over time. Maybe it's a starbase that follows the complex workings of Fed diplomacy and peacekeeping. There are lots of premises that can be developed for this format.

The wide-open possibilities of streaming mean that several Star Trek series could be developed, aimed at different audiences. A Starfleet Academy series for the CW type audience. A cartoon aimed mainly at kids. Eventually even more esoteric topics, such as a Klingon-focused show might be viable once the franchise is built up.

Think LOTR vs Game of Thrones. Same basic genre, but different approaches. Both can be successful without stepping on the other's toes.

But "Event Television" can still bring together a family to view together: Down Under, "Big Brother" came back after a "franchise fatigue" hiatus - not exactly "quality" family viewing, but it rated very well.
Whatever the approach is, it's gotta work in America first and that won't work in America. The time for that is past. The family views TV on different devices at different times. The parents are watching on their iPads while commuting and the kids are watching on a laptop in their bedrooms while pretending to do their homework. Sports will lure dad into the living room to watch on a big-screen TV.

Also, Big Brother is a reality show and that's very different from a niche genre like sci fi. There are a few genres left that are still mass market - reality, cop shows, sports, some sitcoms. Those might still attract family viewing, but sci fi is at the other end of the spectrum of mass-to-niche tastes.

All of these shows have been very popular with mixed-age households - and these are attractive because a cross-section of advertising markets are available, and related "TV tie-in" products sell well because one family members buys it for a different family member.
You're assuming Star Trek will be ad supported rather than subscription based, which is definitely not my assumption. I think subscription is the future for a niche genre like Star Trek.

Also, advertisers like to be able to target their audience in as focused a way as possible. If they can serve ads to mom while she's commuting and dad watching sports on the big screen and junior watching ads on his laptop, they love that. They know exactly who they are reaching and pay only for the eyeballs they want.

Now that the internet is letting them target like never before, and only pay for results (pay per click), they are going to be increasingly critical of unfocused TV advertising where they don't get direct feedback about who precisely is watching and there's no way for anyone to click on a TV ad and prove that it was effective.

Last edited by Temis the Vorta; March 2 2013 at 11:45 PM.
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Old March 3 2013, 06:43 PM   #83
C.E. Evans
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Re: Direct-to-DVD Trek movies?

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
I really don't think Trek can have both a TV series and movies on simultaneously anymore without it eventually being a repeat of what happened last time--it gradually loses its novelty, mainstream audiences get their fill of it and tune out, and people start talking about "franchise fatigue."
Why does it have to be the same?
You skipped over what I said next:
C.E. Evans wrote:
But I do agree that it could work if the TV series is indeed for a distinct audience and is really more or less its own thing from the movies...
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Old March 5 2013, 02:02 AM   #84
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Direct-to-DVD Trek movies?

Paramount is getting back into TV production.

And playing nice with CBS.

And the Viacom & Paramount honchos saw fit to mention Star Trek in both stories even though it has nothing apparently to do with the subject at hand.

Hmm...
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Old March 5 2013, 02:10 AM   #85
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Re: Direct-to-DVD Trek movies?

^^^
Paramount's not so much playing nice with CBS as they are with Sony. Sony's the one that's trying to sell the Beverly Hills Cop TV series to CBS. And the initial article about Paramount getting back into television production was just a prelude to that announcement.
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