Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever....

Warped9 · February 16 2013, 01:02 PM

While reading a Robert Sawyer post on Facebook he provided a link to an interesting find: memos from Robert Justman to Gene Roddenberry regarding Harlan Ellison's second draft of TCOTEOF.

It's only five pages, but it's quite interesting and strongly supports the idea that Ellison's original approach was unsuitable for Star Trek. From what we can see we get a strong sense that GR and company had no choice but to extensively rewrite Ellison' story to make it work. The fact that TCOTEOF is one of TOS' very best episodes---and one of the best examples of SF on television---makes it hard to criticize Ellison's story being so extensively rewritten.

Even more so now I'm intrigued to read Ellison's original treatment just so I could have a better idea of why it couldn't have worked. A story for television isn't a one-man job and a work of holy gospel that cannot be changed. The issue isn't whether Ellison's original was good or not, but whether it was suitable for Star Trek and what was trying to be done with the show. If something has to be changed for the good of the show then so be it. GR and company obviously saw something worthwhile in Ellison's original story, but they also recognized it had to be reworked to fit into the fictional Trek universe already being established at the time. I haven't read Ellison's book on the subject (I'm going to order it) so I don't know how much of his complaint is him not liking what was changed or him not liking how he was treated (or how he perceives he was treated). Roddenberry has been known to be a jerk at times.

Well, have a look and see what you think.

Sir Rhosis · February 16 2013, 06:41 PM

Fascinating stuff -- agree or disagree, Robert Justman had a memorable writing style of his own. I had always wondered what the context of the "made me be cruel to my wife and children" line (quoted in Whitfield's "Making of...", if memory serves) was.

Sir Rhosis

Sir Rhosis · February 16 2013, 07:02 PM

I will add that this memo refers to a draft of the script that is not covered fully in Ellison's book. He includes in their entirety two outlines and a slightly revised edition of his First Draft. For the draft that Justman is referring to he only includes the Teaser and Act One.

Sir Rhosis

Maurice · February 17 2013, 04:24 AM

Justman's memos show he could be incredibly snarky. He was overdramatic in a funny sort of way, I've read a fair number of memos from the show that most people haven't seen, and while Justman often had very valid comments, his ideas for "fixing" stories were often bad...he wasn't a writer and it shows. None of this is to say his notes on the City should be dismissed. He makes some very valid points in general.

Timewalker · February 17 2013, 07:51 AM

Ellison's original script was published in a book called Six Science Fiction Plays. I have that book and have read the City script a few times over the years. My impression is that yes, it was a really good story... but just not Star Trek. The characters were not quite "right" - not themselves. The Guardian wasn't a character in its own right (I've always considered the Guardian to be an intelligent life form of some sort); instead, there were 3 "Guardians" that were sort of mystical aliens who gave clues and hints which Spock, of course, was the one to figure out once they went back in time.

It was too mystical, and the characters were off. Still, there was enough for the writing staff (or whoever was responsible for the final aired script) to work with.

If the version of Ellison's script I read is the last one he turned out, it shows he really should stop screaming about this - he really didn't get what was wrong with it to make it a proper Star Trek episode.

Maurice · February 17 2013, 08:03 AM

That was the first draft. I don't believe any subsequent drafts have been reproduced anywhere, other than the teaser of the second.

Kamdan · February 17 2013, 04:23 PM

Haha, the dog dressed as an alien was from The Enemy Within, not The Man Trap. I think it's just funny that they thought it was just as pathetic as I thought it was when I first saw it.

Warped9 · February 17 2013, 04:27 PM

Kamdan wrote:

Haha, the dog dressed as an alien was from The Enemy Within, not The Man Trap. I think it's just funny that they thought it was pathetic as I thought it was when I first saw it.

They did what they could and I, like many others, didn't think it was pathetic. Film f/x is all about creativity and imagination and using the tools you have at hand. I've seen a lot of older films and TV shows were I was impressed with what they accomplished considering what little they had to work with.

Metryq · February 17 2013, 05:36 PM

Warped9 wrote:

I've seen a lot of older films and TV shows were I was impressed with what they accomplished considering what little they had to work with.

Bingo. That is why part of my definition of "art" is the choices made by the creator based on time, materials and other resources. Everything about TOS has a theatrical, metaphorical atmosphere to it. So glitzy or über-realistic effects are not part of that picture. In fact, TOS is almost a radio show. Seriously, run any episode with your eyes closed and you will find that most action sequences can be followed because someone will fill you in verbally. "Direct hit amidships by photon torpedo. He's veering away."

The simple costume in "The Enemy Within" was enough to tell me "dog-like alien critter."

ZapBrannigan · February 17 2013, 07:58 PM

The parts where Justman is talking about how much certain pages would cost to film remind me of two other STAR TREK figures. In his STARLOG column, David Gerrold famously disrespected Fred Freiberger, but he had to admit that Freiberger was a master of figuring out things like that and having a command of the details that Gerrold couldn't hope to achieve.

Anji · February 20 2013, 02:53 AM

Thanks for posting this memo. Interesting read. But I tell you if I was Roddenberry I would've tossed that memo after reading the first paragraph. I don't care for people with attitude like that.

FormerLurker · February 20 2013, 03:19 AM

Having read the first draft script, I can honestly say that Timewalker is correct. The characters are off, and the story is too mystical and "sense of wonder" to be good Star Trek.

I keep saying this about STV, and I'll say it about Harlan Ellison's first draft of COTEOF: it's good science fiction, and a good story, but it's terrible Star Trek.

And of course, STV was also poorly executed.

mos6507 · February 20 2013, 03:26 AM

Gene used to rewrite scripts himself, you know. I don't know what his bedside manner was in doing this, though.

diankra · February 20 2013, 04:14 AM

That seems to be the memo that Justman quotes himself in his Inside Star Trek book. Certainly, the 'Scene 45 caused me to be very cruel to my wife and children' line is one he quotes there. (Ditto the 12/300 extras bits).

T'Girl · February 24 2013, 03:32 PM

There is one portion of the memo that reminded me of one of my favorite nit-picks from this episode. " "...nobody is doing anything about tracking down poor Dr. McCoy. Whose two hours have by now about run out."

This is (the two hours) from something that obvious changed later. Is there a actual reason that McCoy (after being rendered unconscious) wasn't immediately beamed back to the ship? Even if the rest of the landing party remained behind to explore?

In universe reason I mean.

It's difficult to believe that Mister Justman thought that a sizable portion of the American audience wouldn't know who Adolf Hitler was, the second world war was only some 21 years in the past.

Justman seeming avocation of Kirk verbalizing his inability to "keep his mitts" off of Keeler I feel would have damage one of the finer aspect of the episode. Kirk (and Spock) would seem to have been in Earth's past for some time, perhaps months. The relationship between Kirk and Keeler would appear (imho) to have been chaste, it added significance to the romance. For Kirk to speak/act like Keeler was just another alien princess hookup I feel would have reduced the importance of the relationship.

February 16 2013, 01:02 PM	#1
Warped9 Admiral Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada	Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever.... While reading a Robert Sawyer post on Facebook he provided a link to an interesting find: memos from Robert Justman to Gene Roddenberry regarding Harlan Ellison's second draft of TCOTEOF. It's only five pages, but it's quite interesting and strongly supports the idea that Ellison's original approach was unsuitable for Star Trek. From what we can see we get a strong sense that GR and company had no choice but to extensively rewrite Ellison' story to make it work. The fact that TCOTEOF is one of TOS' very best episodes---and one of the best examples of SF on television---makes it hard to criticize Ellison's story being so extensively rewritten. Even more so now I'm intrigued to read Ellison's original treatment just so I could have a better idea of why it couldn't have worked. A story for television isn't a one-man job and a work of holy gospel that cannot be changed. The issue isn't whether Ellison's original was good or not, but whether it was suitable for Star Trek and what was trying to be done with the show. If something has to be changed for the good of the show then so be it. GR and company obviously saw something worthwhile in Ellison's original story, but they also recognized it had to be reworked to fit into the fictional Trek universe already being established at the time. I haven't read Ellison's book on the subject (I'm going to order it) so I don't know how much of his complaint is him not liking what was changed or him not liking how he was treated (or how he perceives he was treated). Roddenberry has been known to be a jerk at times. Well, have a look and see what you think. __________________ *STAR TREK:* 1964-1991 Last edited by Warped9; February 16 2013 at 03:29 PM.

February 16 2013, 06:41 PM	#2
Sir Rhosis Commodore Location: Cincinnati, OH	Re: Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever.... Fascinating stuff -- agree or disagree, Robert Justman had a memorable writing style of his own. I had always wondered what the context of the "made me be cruel to my wife and children" line (quoted in Whitfield's "Making of...", if memory serves) was. Sir Rhosis __________________ Read my Star Trek script reviews at http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpres...les/unseen.htm Read "Origins" at http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpres...es/origins.htm

February 16 2013, 07:02 PM	#3
Sir Rhosis Commodore Location: Cincinnati, OH	Re: Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever.... I will add that this memo refers to a draft of the script that is not covered fully in Ellison's book. He includes in their entirety two outlines and a slightly revised edition of his First Draft. For the draft that Justman is referring to he only includes the Teaser and Act One. Sir Rhosis __________________ Read my Star Trek script reviews at http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpres...les/unseen.htm Read "Origins" at http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpres...es/origins.htm Last edited by Sir Rhosis; February 16 2013 at 07:03 PM. Reason: better word choice

February 17 2013, 04:24 AM	#4
Maurice Rear Admiral Location: Maurice in San Francisco	Re: Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever.... Justman's memos show he could be incredibly snarky. He was overdramatic in a funny sort of way, I've read a fair number of memos from the show that most people haven't seen, and while Justman often had very valid comments, his ideas for "fixing" stories were often bad...he wasn't a writer and it shows. None of this is to say his notes on the City should be dismissed. He makes some very valid points in general. __________________ * * * "Star Trek…at times sparkled with true ingenuity, and pure science fiction approaches, and at other times was more carnival like, and very much more the creature of television than the creature of a legitimate literary form." —Rod Serling, 1970"

February 17 2013, 07:51 AM	#5
Timewalker Commodore Location: In many different universes, simultaneously.	Re: Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever.... Ellison's original script was published in a book called Six Science Fiction Plays. I have that book and have read the City script a few times over the years. My impression is that yes, it was a really good story... but just not Star Trek. The characters were not quite "right" - not themselves. The Guardian wasn't a character in its own right (I've always considered the Guardian to be an intelligent life form of some sort); instead, there were 3 "Guardians" that were sort of mystical aliens who gave clues and hints which Spock, of course, was the one to figure out once they went back in time. It was too mystical, and the characters were off. Still, there was enough for the writing staff (or whoever was responsible for the final aired script) to work with. If the version of Ellison's script I read is the last one he turned out, it shows he really should stop screaming about this - he really didn't get what was wrong with it to make it a proper Star Trek episode. __________________ "Let's give it to Riker. He'll eat anything!"

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February 17 2013, 08:03 AM	#6
Maurice Rear Admiral Location: Maurice in San Francisco	Re: Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever.... That was the first draft. I don't believe any subsequent drafts have been reproduced anywhere, other than the teaser of the second. __________________ * * * "Star Trek…at times sparkled with true ingenuity, and pure science fiction approaches, and at other times was more carnival like, and very much more the creature of television than the creature of a legitimate literary form." —Rod Serling, 1970"

February 17 2013, 04:23 PM	#7
Kamdan Lieutenant Commander	Re: Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever.... Haha, the dog dressed as an alien was from The Enemy Within, not The Man Trap. I think it's just funny that they thought it was just as pathetic as I thought it was when I first saw it.

February 17 2013, 07:58 PM	#10
ZapBrannigan Commander Location: New York State	Re: Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever.... The parts where Justman is talking about how much certain pages would cost to film remind me of two other STAR TREK figures. In his STARLOG column, David Gerrold famously disrespected Fred Freiberger, but he had to admit that Freiberger was a master of figuring out things like that and having a command of the details that Gerrold couldn't hope to achieve.

February 20 2013, 02:53 AM	#11
Anji Rear Admiral Location: Assisting in the birth of baby Horta on Janus VI	Re: Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever.... Thanks for posting this memo. Interesting read. But I tell you if I was Roddenberry I would've tossed that memo after reading the first paragraph. I don't care for people with attitude like that. __________________ "You may be wrong, but you may be right." - Billy Joel

February 20 2013, 03:19 AM	#12
FormerLurker Captain	Re: Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever.... Having read the first draft script, I can honestly say that Timewalker is correct. The characters are off, and the story is too mystical and "sense of wonder" to be good Star Trek. I keep saying this about STV, and I'll say it about Harlan Ellison's first draft of COTEOF: it's good science fiction, and a good story, but it's terrible Star Trek. And of course, STV was also poorly executed.

February 20 2013, 03:26 AM	#13
mos6507 Commander	Re: Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever.... Gene used to rewrite scripts himself, you know. I don't know what his bedside manner was in doing this, though. __________________ Fem Trekz on Facebook

February 20 2013, 04:14 AM	#14
diankra Commodore Location: UK	Re: Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever.... That seems to be the memo that Justman quotes himself in his Inside Star Trek book. Certainly, the 'Scene 45 caused me to be very cruel to my wife and children' line is one he quotes there. (Ditto the 12/300 extras bits). __________________ "Some days are better than others. They say that where I come from." "Loudly, I imagine, on the day you left." (Blake's 7 - Rumours of Death)

February 24 2013, 03:32 PM	#15
T'Girl Vice Admiral	Re: Notes re. The City On The Edge Of Forever.... There is one portion of the memo that reminded me of one of my favorite nit-picks from this episode. " "...nobody is doing anything about tracking down poor Dr. McCoy. Whose two hours have by now about run out." This is (the two hours) from something that obvious changed later. Is there a actual reason that McCoy (after being rendered unconscious) wasn't immediately beamed back to the ship? Even if the rest of the landing party remained behind to explore? In universe reason I mean. It's difficult to believe that Mister Justman thought that a sizable portion of the American audience wouldn't know who Adolf Hitler was, the second world war was only some 21 years in the past. Justman seeming avocation of Kirk verbalizing his inability to "keep his mitts" off of Keeler I feel would have damage one of the finer aspect of the episode. Kirk (and Spock) would seem to have been in Earth's past for some time, perhaps months. The relationship between Kirk and Keeler would appear (imho) to have been chaste, it added significance to the romance. For Kirk to speak/act like Keeler was just another alien princess hookup I feel would have reduced the importance of the relationship.