RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,261
Posts: 5,349,353
Members: 24,614
Currently online: 546
Newest member: robyn

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Insight Editions Announces Three Trek Books For 2015
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

To Be Takei Review by Spencer Blohm
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Mulgrew: Playing Red
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Hallmark 2015 Trek Ornaments
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Funko Mini Spock
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 12 2013, 05:42 PM   #16
CorporalClegg
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Location: Where my heart is.
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

TNG Romulans are different from TOS Romulans. ST09 Romulans are different from either. How come no one ever asks about them?

Yes. It's rhetorical question.
__________________
Konnichi wa!
CorporalClegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 05:44 PM   #17
Jackson_Roykirk
Commodore
 
Jackson_Roykirk's Avatar
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

It's my opinion that when TMP was made, the fact that Klingons had ridges was just a retcon -- i.e., the intention was that Klingons ALWAYS had ridges, and the Klingons in TOS were smooth-headed simply because they didn't think of giving them ridged foreheads, or didn't want to go through the hassle and expense.

No matter what Klingons looked like in TOS, TMP told us otherwise -- that Klingons were always SUPPOSED to look like they did in TMP.

I'm old enough to have seen TMP in the theaters in 1979. I remember noticing the difference in the Klingons, but I also remember not really being concerned about it -- because it was just a movie, and TOS was just a TV show.


DS9 knew this in Trials and Tribblations, and they were smart enough to intentionally stay away from the issue by addressing it in a very tongue-in-cheek manner (in a very tongue-in-cheek episode that was more a valentine to the fans).
__________________

...With shoes that cut, and eyes that burn like cigarettes
With fingernails that shine like justice and a voice that is dark like tinted glass...
Jackson_Roykirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 05:54 PM   #18
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

DavidLeeRoth wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
According to "Affliction"/"Divergence" one Klingon colony world was infected with the Augment virus. Therefore both smooth and bumpy Klingons should have co-existed in the Empire, even though we never saw it on TV or film (this was, however, depicted in the post-series Enterprise novels and a few old TOS ones too)

In Into Darkness we'll see about a dozen Klingons, but only 3 or 4 of them unmasked - and since what's under the masks of the others isn't revealed, some could very well be smooth-headed. So no continuity error, IMO.
That's a good, plausible explanation. Still, I would like to see some smoothed-headed Klingons. It would be a nice homage to TOS. Do we know for certain that there won't be any smoothed-headed Klingons?
Yeah, it was confirmed that all the Klingons whose faces we see have ridges. Prior to filming, writer Bob Orci said simply on Trekmovie.com that "the Klingons have ridges". Much more recently, details have emerged about the nuKlingons faces - see HERE for details.
(it seems I was mistaken about the number of unmasked Klingons seen)
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 05:56 PM   #19
Sindatur
Rear Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

Jackson_Roykirk wrote: View Post
...(in a very tongue-in-cheek episode that was more a valentine to the fans).
<SHUDDER> Why did you have to remind me of the Trauma brought about by TATV
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 06:01 PM   #20
Jackson_Roykirk
Commodore
 
Jackson_Roykirk's Avatar
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Jackson_Roykirk wrote: View Post
...(in a very tongue-in-cheek episode that was more a valentine to the fans).
<SHUDDER> Why did you have to remind me of the Trauma brought about by TATV
Yes. It's a shame TATV de facto branded the phrase "Valentine to the fans".
__________________

...With shoes that cut, and eyes that burn like cigarettes
With fingernails that shine like justice and a voice that is dark like tinted glass...
Jackson_Roykirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 06:10 PM   #21
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

Mach5 wrote: View Post
What about the Romulans, BTW? Honestly, I never saw the point to those V-shaped forehead ridges they got in TNG
They only did that so TV viewers wouldn't confuse them with Vulcans.

In-universe, it's not a big deal, as Spock - who has no ridges - is able to pass for a Romulan and nobody questions it.
__________________
In labor news: Longshoremen walked off the piers today. Rescue operations are continuing.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 06:57 PM   #22
Franklin
Rear Admiral
 
Location: In the bleachers
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

The Stig wrote: View Post
There will be no 'smooth-headed' Klingons because the Enterprise episode arc that 'explained' the difference was stupid and pointless. Worf's joke in 'Trials and Tribble-ations' was explanation enough.
Yep.

Even in Trek, where continuity is important in varying degrees to fans, some changes just gotta be accepted as we-did-it-because-we-could-finally-improve-production-values. I don't think we're actually owed detailed in-universe explanations for those things short of "it's a long story." Certainly not entire story arcs like in ENT. That's one step away from a series of stories proving how the TMP Enterprise is a refit of the TOS Enterprise, rather than just accepting that it's a completely different ship with the simple in-story explanation, "A refit. Oh. OK, I'll go along with that."

I've always liked two very simple in-universe explanations for the ridges.
-- The first doesn't explain the ridges, but says they were always there. However, some Klingons carry genes that are somehow triggered to occasionally produce a generation of smooth-headed Klingons among certain couples. It is a natural mutation, and occurs infrequently. The time of TOS was one of those times. The gene is dormant in most offspring, and they have ridged children.
-- The second says there were historically two races of Klingons, smooth-headed and ridged, but the smooth-headed Klingons were so small in number that interbreeding with ridged Klingons finally led to there being few if any totally smooth-headed Klingons left. By the 24th century, all Klingons have ridges of some sort.

Edited to add: These explanations don't explain the ridges on Koloth, Kang, and Kor in DS9, but those could be explained by cosmetic surgery (Klingon versions of tattoos) or a gene kicked in late in their lives because they came from smooth-headed stock. Or, they genetically enhanced themselves. Whatever. I guess I'm just saying the simplest explanations may work the best. They are the only three Klingons on screen whose contradictory appearances needed explaining, anyway.
__________________
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -- Mark Twain

Last edited by Franklin; February 12 2013 at 08:10 PM.
Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 08:48 PM   #23
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Some folks do have some interesting notions concerning "the integrity of the franchise" but, as has already been pointed out, nothing seen or said in any previous episode or movie precludes the appearance of bumpy-headed Klingons in the upcoming movie. Or smooth-headed Klingons. Or a mixture of both, plus some never-before-seen pointy-headed Klingons.

Bring 'em all on. "It is a good day to put your opponent's eye out with that pointy, pointy head!"
I'm boycotting the new movie if there are no Klingon Coneheads!
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 09:19 PM   #24
Ovation
Vice Admiral
 
Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

And they'd be better be from France, dammit.
Ovation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 09:30 PM   #25
Sindatur
Rear Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

DavidLeeRoth wrote: View Post
I didn't see a specific thread talking about the subject, so I hope that this hasn't already been discussed to death.

If the Klingons appear in the new film with ridges, how will that be explained? Klingons in the mid-23rd century should not have cranial ridges! Wouldn't depicting Klingons with a ridged forehead in the new film be a slap in the face to Trek canon and history?

Abrams could argue that most people who see the film won't care or have even heard of the augment virus, but some fans will care and for the integrity of the franchise, the Klingons should not have cranial ridges.
Did you miss the TOS movie that had Klingons with Ridges in them? Those movies are Canon and TOS and had Klingons with Ridges. <Suddenly finding myself craving Ruffles Potato Chips>
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 10:30 PM   #26
SalvorHardin
Rear Admiral
 
SalvorHardin's Avatar
 
Location: Star's End
View SalvorHardin's Twitter Profile
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

BillJ wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Some folks do have some interesting notions concerning "the integrity of the franchise" but, as has already been pointed out, nothing seen or said in any previous episode or movie precludes the appearance of bumpy-headed Klingons in the upcoming movie. Or smooth-headed Klingons. Or a mixture of both, plus some never-before-seen pointy-headed Klingons.

Bring 'em all on. "It is a good day to put your opponent's eye out with that pointy, pointy head!"
I'm boycotting the new movie if there are no Klingon Coneheads!
It's all about the 80s metal hair for me. No 80s metal hair under those helmets, no ticket.
__________________

SalvorHardin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 10:42 PM   #27
DavidLeeRoth
Lieutenant
 
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

Sindatur wrote: View Post
DavidLeeRoth wrote: View Post
I didn't see a specific thread talking about the subject, so I hope that this hasn't already been discussed to death.

If the Klingons appear in the new film with ridges, how will that be explained? Klingons in the mid-23rd century should not have cranial ridges! Wouldn't depicting Klingons with a ridged forehead in the new film be a slap in the face to Trek canon and history?

Abrams could argue that most people who see the film won't care or have even heard of the augment virus, but some fans will care and for the integrity of the franchise, the Klingons should not have cranial ridges.
Did you miss the TOS movie that had Klingons with Ridges in them? Those movies are Canon and TOS and had Klingons with Ridges. <Suddenly finding myself craving Ruffles Potato Chips>
TMP takes place in 2273, at least six years after the events of "Errand of Mercy" (2267) and other TOS episodes with Klingons.

I guess the best explanation is is that both kinds of Klingons existed in the late 23rd century.
DavidLeeRoth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 10:48 PM   #28
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

Best way to look at it is this. Different creators have different visions of the future. Roddenberry said that the way Klingons look in TMP is the way they are suppose to look "in universe" just that the budget and technology for the look didn't exist in the sixties.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 11:29 PM   #29
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

It's worth pointing out that co-writer/producer Roberto Orci is a huge Trekkie. He's such a big fan he has shelves of the novels. Any changes made by in the Trekverse by this lot are, at the very least, informed ones.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12 2013, 11:37 PM   #30
Jackson_Roykirk
Commodore
 
Jackson_Roykirk's Avatar
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Re: Klingon augment virus/Into Darkness Klingons

DavidLeeRoth wrote: View Post
TMP takes place in 2273, at least six years after the events of "Errand of Mercy" (2267) and other TOS episodes with Klingons.

I guess the best explanation is is that both kinds of Klingons existed in the late 23rd century.
If you personally require an in-universe reason, then the idea of two different co-existing races is as good as any.

However, I personally don't feel an in-universe reason is required (or even helpful), and I'm just as happy telling myself that TOS Klingons were supposed to look exactly like TMP/TNG Klingons...
(i.e., the idea that TOS Klingons were supposed to have ridged foreheads was retconned by TMP).
__________________

...With shoes that cut, and eyes that burn like cigarettes
With fingernails that shine like justice and a voice that is dark like tinted glass...
Jackson_Roykirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:47 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.