Captain Solok

Sadara · March 9 2013, 04:42 AM

So I was watching Take Me Out to the Holosuite the other day and I'm curious what other fans think of Captain Solok.

He kind of baffles me. He is less than fond of more "emotionally handicapped species" (to the point where he behaves much like a bully) and yet he chose to leave Vulcan and venture out among them. Sure he has an all Vulcan crew, but he had to go through the Academy with members of other species and he comes into frequent contact with them.

I wish we'd learned more about *why* Solok is this way. Did he not measure up to other Vulcans at some point so now he thinks he has to prove his superiority elsewhere? Is he seriously just a jerk with no catalyst behind the behavior?

Jono · March 9 2013, 05:08 AM

He's a Vulcan, they are generally all jerks. Even Spock frequently put down the Humans on the Enterprise because they didn't embrace logic and strictly control their emotions. Vulcan's have a superiority complex and Solok seems to be a bit more aggressive about it.

Pavonis · March 9 2013, 07:06 AM

There is no point in being superior if you can't demonstrate it to the inferiors. Staying on Vulcan wouldn't let Solok demonstrate his superiority to the likes of Sisko.

Dream · March 9 2013, 08:15 AM

DS9 had a problem writing likable Vulcans. They were all jerks or murderers.

ENT kind of had the same problem too.

Jono · March 9 2013, 12:27 PM

Given that neither Solok or Chu'lak were meant to be likeable it isn't a problem at all. The only other Vulcan I can remember is the one from "The Maquis" and I can't remember her being likeable or unlikeable.

Tosk · March 9 2013, 12:45 PM

Dream wrote:

DS9 had a problem writing likable Vulcans. They were all jerks or murderers.

Was there a single Vulcan in DS9 who was supposed to be likeable? I don't recall any.

There was an ambassador who was crummy to Bashir, a sniper, a jerk Baseball guy and his nameless posse...and a bunch of neutral ones, like Ben's old captain, Maquis lady, and a whole mess of other randoms.

Dream · March 9 2013, 01:07 PM

Tosk wrote:

Dream wrote:

DS9 had a problem writing likable Vulcans. They were all jerks or murderers.

Was there a single Vulcan in DS9 who was supposed to be likeable? I don't recall any.

There was an ambassador who was crummy to Bashir, a sniper, a jerk Baseball guy and his nameless posse...and a bunch of neutral ones, like Ben's old captain, Maquis lady, and a whole mess of other randoms.

The way the Vulcans were depicted on DS9 felt incredibly negative to me.

TNG really didn't use Vulcans all that much, but when they did with Dr Selar and Ensign Taurik (Lower Decks) they were pretty cool. Also liked how the writers handled the return of Sarak and Spock.

I won't talk about TOS, VOY, or ENT since they all had a Vulcan as part of the main cast that they obviously tried to develop.

DS9forever · March 9 2013, 01:40 PM

I think some fans take exception to Spock's race being portrayed as snooty, arrogant jerks in DS9, TNG and Enterprise; I liked this portrayal actually.

Mr. Laser Beam · March 9 2013, 02:51 PM

Solok was the most un-Vulcan Vulcan I have ever seen on Trek.

He derided humans for acting emotionally, yet Solok was obviously emotional himself. He gloated. He smirked. He rubbed people's faces in their supposed "inferiority". Those are all emotional reactions, and Vulcans - by definition - are not entitled to that.

No doubt the reason that the T'Kumbra had an all-Vulcan crew was because of Solok's racial prejudice and intolerance - he probably wouldn't ALLOW any non-Vulcans to serve on his ship. And who knows if the T'Kumbra would even answer a distress call from a human-crewed ship, or lift a proverbial finger to save anyone who was not Vulcan? Solok pretty much hated humans, and it showed.

Indeed, the very concept of 'superior' or 'inferior' races is illogical in the extreme.

Arrogance is an emotion, and Solok was the most arrogant of them all. He had no right to call himself Vulcan.

C.E. Evans · March 9 2013, 03:57 PM

Although Vulcans suppress their emotions, they are not machines. Vulcans can engage in rivalries & competitions, and are even capable of put-me-downs like anyone else. They just do it in a way that piss most Humans off, IMO.

And that the T'Kumbra has an all-Vulcan crew may have more to do with the ship possibly being built and launched from Vulcan. There probably are a few Federation starships launched from Earth that have predominantly or even entirely Human crews.

Mr. Laser Beam · March 9 2013, 04:19 PM

C.E. Evans wrote:

Vulcans can engage in rivalries & competitions, and are even capable of put-me-downs like anyone else. They just do it in a way that piss most Humans off, IMO

No Vulcan has ever acted as openly emotional and insulting as Solok. His emotional control, if he had any, was obviously faulty.

C.E. Evans · March 9 2013, 04:22 PM

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

C.E. Evans wrote:

Vulcans can engage in rivalries & competitions, and are even capable of put-me-downs like anyone else. They just do it in a way that piss most Humans off, IMO

No Vulcan has ever acted as openly emotional and insulting as Solok. His emotional control, if he had any, was obviously faulty.

Not really. Solok seemed to be a Vulcan that enjoyed pushing the buttons of Humans like Sisko, but otherwise, he seemed in keeping with most Vulcans.

Mr. Laser Beam · March 9 2013, 04:25 PM

^ But like I said, "enjoying pushing the buttons" of anyone is an emotional pursuit - which Vulcans are not entitled to. If Solok is engaging in this, his control is slipping.

Although a personal rivalry between Solok and Sisko would explain a lot. I can't remember, were there ever many scenes between Solok and other human characters? If Solok doesn't hate other humans like he clearly hates Sisko, then I guess that's good.

C.E. Evans · March 9 2013, 06:28 PM

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

^ But like I said, "enjoying pushing the buttons" of anyone is an emotional pursuit - which Vulcans are not entitled to. If Solok is engaging in this, his control is slipping.

Actually, Vulcans do have emotions. They simply suppress them. Vulcans have admitted to feeling grief, contentment, enjoyment, and even love. They just don't express them as much as Humans do.

Although a personal rivalry between Solok and Sisko would explain a lot.

And it seems to be the case. They've known each other for a very long time.

I can't remember, were there ever many scenes between Solok and other human characters? If Solok doesn't hate other humans like he clearly hates Sisko, then I guess that's good.

There's no indication that Solok hates Sisko, but he is very competitive with Sisko, and their rivalry began while they were cadets together at the Academy.

Mr. Laser Beam · March 9 2013, 06:32 PM

C.E. Evans wrote:

Actually, Vulcans do have emotions. They simply suppress them.

Of course. But Solok is clearly failing in his suppression of emotions. His gloating, smirking, and anti-Human prejudice clearly demonstrate this.

Spock, half-human, is more Vulcan than Solok could ever claim to be.

March 9 2013, 04:42 AM	#1
Sadara Lieutenant Commander Location: Washington State	Captain Solok So I was watching Take Me Out to the Holosuite the other day and I'm curious what other fans think of Captain Solok. He kind of baffles me. He is less than fond of more "emotionally handicapped species" (to the point where he behaves much like a bully) and yet he chose to leave Vulcan and venture out among them. Sure he has an all Vulcan crew, but he had to go through the Academy with members of other species and he comes into frequent contact with them. I wish we'd learned more about why Solok is this way. Did he not measure up to other Vulcans at some point so now he thinks he has to prove his superiority elsewhere? Is he seriously just a jerk with no catalyst behind the behavior? __________________ Avatar by Nightwing1975

March 9 2013, 05:08 AM	#2
Jono Rear Admiral Location: Australia	Re: Captain Solok He's a Vulcan, they are generally all jerks. Even Spock frequently put down the Humans on the Enterprise because they didn't embrace logic and strictly control their emotions. Vulcan's have a superiority complex and Solok seems to be a bit more aggressive about it. __________________ Those who lose dreaming are lost.

March 9 2013, 07:06 AM	#3
Pavonis Commodore Location: South Dakota	Re: Captain Solok There is no point in being superior if you can't demonstrate it to the inferiors. Staying on Vulcan wouldn't let Solok demonstrate his superiority to the likes of Sisko.

March 9 2013, 08:15 AM	#4
Dream Admiral	Re: Captain Solok DS9 had a problem writing likable Vulcans. They were all jerks or murderers. ENT kind of had the same problem too. __________________ TWoP Forums .

March 9 2013, 12:27 PM	#5
Jono Rear Admiral Location: Australia	Re: Captain Solok Given that neither Solok or Chu'lak were meant to be likeable it isn't a problem at all. The only other Vulcan I can remember is the one from "The Maquis" and I can't remember her being likeable or unlikeable. __________________ Those who lose dreaming are lost.

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March 9 2013, 01:40 PM	#8
DS9forever Captain	Re: Captain Solok I think some fans take exception to Spock's race being portrayed as snooty, arrogant jerks in DS9, TNG and Enterprise; I liked this portrayal actually.

March 9 2013, 02:51 PM	#9
Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Location: The visitor's bullpen	Re: Captain Solok Solok was the most un-Vulcan Vulcan I have ever seen on Trek. He derided humans for acting emotionally, yet Solok was obviously emotional himself. He gloated. He smirked. He rubbed people's faces in their supposed "inferiority". Those are all emotional reactions, and Vulcans - by definition - are not entitled to that. No doubt the reason that the T'Kumbra had an all-Vulcan crew was because of Solok's racial prejudice and intolerance - he probably wouldn't ALLOW any non-Vulcans to serve on his ship. And who knows if the T'Kumbra would even answer a distress call from a human-crewed ship, or lift a proverbial finger to save anyone who was not Vulcan? Solok pretty much hated humans, and it showed. Indeed, the very concept of 'superior' or 'inferior' races is illogical in the extreme. Arrogance is an emotion, and Solok was the most arrogant of them all. He had no right to call himself Vulcan. __________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

March 9 2013, 03:57 PM	#10
C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)	Re: Captain Solok Although Vulcans suppress their emotions, they are not machines. Vulcans can engage in rivalries & competitions, and are even capable of put-me-downs like anyone else. They just do it in a way that piss most Humans off, IMO. And that the T'Kumbra has an all-Vulcan crew may have more to do with the ship possibly being built and launched from Vulcan. There probably are a few Federation starships launched from Earth that have predominantly or even entirely Human crews. __________________ "Shout, shout, let it all out..."

March 9 2013, 04:25 PM	#13
Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Location: The visitor's bullpen	Re: Captain Solok ^ But like I said, "enjoying pushing the buttons" of anyone is an emotional pursuit - which Vulcans are not entitled to. If Solok is engaging in this, his control is slipping. Although a personal rivalry between Solok and Sisko would explain a lot. I can't remember, were there ever many scenes between Solok and other human characters? If Solok doesn't hate other humans like he clearly hates Sisko, then I guess that's good. __________________ It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.