The Pope

[J. Allen]

{ Emilia } wrote:

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Are you saying all old people look the same? That's so ageist.


ETA: For what it's worth, I thought during his first appearance Francis I's habitus, speech and body language were totally different from Pope Sidious'. Gave a very different first impression I think.

It felt to me that he appeared more conversational, his body language seemed to indicate that he was more open to feedback than his predecessor.

[iguana_tonante]

{ Emilia } wrote:

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Argentina is full of Italians

As I said in the other thread, his father was born in the same city I was (Turin), and he has family members in the Asti countryside, where part of my family resides. Now I'm scared we might actually be related.

[Starkers]

{ Emilia } wrote:

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There's always that option.

Although it's rather unlikely given the name he picked. But who knows!

Hey North Korea calls itself a democratic republic but it isn't

[bigdaddy]

teacake wrote:

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But we want to change them. We need to! No matter how middle aged they are they get musty.

That's right because they need some press because no one under the age of 50 with an IQ listens to these old white bastards anymore.

There was a joke going around about the odds of a Pope Bieber. Someone wrote "He would already be molested by the time he walks in the door", I replied "Nah, he's too old for them".

When the church picks a black, gay, woman Pope then I might care.

[Nerys Ghemor]

Of those, I'd say you would see an African Pope first, especially since the whole "the Pope must be Italian" tradition now seems to be conclusively broken.

[Star Wolf]

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

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Of those, I'd say you would see an African Pope first, especially since the whole "the Pope must be Italian" tradition now seems to be conclusively broken.

Those who see race first are saying don't fall for this Italian passing himself off as Latino. Meanwhile Latinos are saying Pope Francis is one of us.

[junxon]

what makes a latino different from an italian? seems like fictional racial classification going on

[Hound of UIster]

teacake wrote:

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If this pope doesn't announce that he will be tackling child sexual abuse in the church as the most pressing issue the Catholic church faces than he is a worthless piece of shit. Because no one cares about all the other wah wah papal encyclicals about wah wah whatever while systemic child sexual abuse is going on. They need to get their shit together on this matter or they are going down.

That is just unlikely. The official policy of the Church in regards to sexual abuse seems to be cover up and hide everything from investigating secular authorities.

[Star Wolf]

Racial distinctions are political. And politically Latinos are seen as an other race with an expected mixture of African or Native American DNA. Even if a certain percentage of Latinos trace all of their DNA to a European nobleman, the prejudice and political set asides still exist for them as they do now for Pope Francis, the Latino, thus the claim the Church leadership is not always "White"

[teacake]

junxon wrote:

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when was the last time you heard of a priest forcing a child into poverty?

I think there is a trickle down effect of the church's failure to tackle child sexual abuse that will impact their tackling of poverty. I know I will no longer support Catholic charities whereas 10 years ago I would have looked at them very favourably. The other day I was asked if I wanted to buy some jam from a stall run by elderly ladies from the local Catholic parish, the money was going to some Catholic children's mission in a third world country. In the past I would have handed them 10.00 on the spot. This time I told them no, and I told them why. Remote PNG parish, vulnerable children, priests.. all I can think of is what a field day a pedophile priest would have there. We know some of the most heinous offenders are sent overseas to third world parishes when their reputation becomes too hot to keep them in their country of origin.

I'm just one person, I donate around 1000 dollars a year to overseas charities aimed at education, poverty and medical issues. I've always done that even when I was at my first world poorest, I've been sponsoring a child for 15 years (not the same child, I'm on my third sponsorship). I know abuse happens in all kinds of organizations but it so systemic and widespread in the Catholic church that I will never knowingly give them another cent. And I reckon there are quite a few people who will walk right past the Catholic jam stall for the same reasons as me. People are angry, people are thinking twice about where their money goes and at this point with the complete fail of the Catholic church to deal with this horror it is only going to get worse.

In my own city one of the poorest parishes has had SIX abuser priests in a row. This is six priests known to be abusers placed in that parish, an area where there are sure to be vulnerable children. This is the stuff of riots IMO and I'm sorry that people are too passive or helpless feeling to vent their anger in a way that makes the church pay attention.. instead you have dwindling attendance. I'd rather have a demonstration that went on for weeks on the steps of the church and the entire suburb aware and engaged in the issue.

So yes, if the pope does not make this the priority he is a worthless piece of shit. There's nothing wrong with being angry and using strong language, we are talking about thousands of children raped over the last couple centuries and very little done to change it. The very simple bottom line is the Catholic church never calls the cops! They don't turn their own people over to the law. I know the police in my state have said they have never received a call about abusers from the church itself, a church clearly aware that abuse has taken place. How insane is it that church leaders can waffle on about how tragic this is and something must be done but the obvious call of reporting a rapist to the authorities never happens.

[Sagart]

The truth of the matter, right now, is that the child protection policies that have been and are being implemented in the Church are among the most rigorous of any organisation. Our diocese has implemented policies in each parish, which in turn have been the subject of an independent review and all the clergy and church members who have any access to minors or vulnerable adults have all been vetted by the police. While the horrific acts of some and criminal negligence of others will continue to cause suffering and sadness for some time to come, those of us who truly believe in the Church's mission will endeavour to eradicate this evil, provide help for those who have suffered and create a future where this can never happen again. While it is in no way comparable to the pain of those who were abused, those of us who love the Church as the Body of Christ feel an intense agony that has come from this evil. Our new Holy Father will, I'm sure, speak to this and give the proper leadership to convey the Church's sorrow, its commitment to change and to accept the anger and hatred it has incurred as a path to purification. Our main concerns in this matter have to be honesty, true sorrow and an absolute dedication to truth, however painful it may be, and to the protection of the weakest and most vulnerable.
I know some will see these words as merely that: words. Believe me though, many, many in the Church are totally dedicated to this. We cannot hope for or expect the forgiveness of those who have been so gravely hurt. We can only try to rebuild trust by our actions. With Pope Francis, we pray to God to grant us all we need to do this, together, as a Church, on its knees; broken, wounded but faithful in the Spirit's power to make all things new.

[junxon]

when the church reports a pedopriest to the police instead of moving him on and covering it up it'll stop being just words. until then you can be as eloquent as you want, but it wont mean a thing.

[EmoBorg]

It was a good idea to choose a Latin American pope as the catholic church is facing serious challenges from evangelical protestant churches in that part of the world. I know he is of Italian descent but i seriously don't think they would have chosen an amerindian, asian or african as pope. It would have been nice but it would be too radical for them.

I like that the new pope chose to name himself as Francis after Francis of Assisi. Francis of Assis is a famous and popular saint of the catholic church who did a lot of good.

I am a pagan and prefer worshipping the gods of my ancient ancestors but i must admit that the catholic church has helped and is helping millions upon millions of people every year. I hope that the new pope continues the good works and even expands it.

[Star Wolf]

junxon wrote:

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when the church reports a pedopriest to the police instead of moving him on and covering it up it'll stop being just words. until then you can be as eloquent as you want, but it wont mean a thing.

I take it that many think that the current generation of Priest will act no different then the molestors who saw society change to the point victims went public? even though now we have our eyes on them. And we will only be satisfied when some are found and served to the public with their head on a pike. Wait, no capital puniment. Tarred and feathered.

[lvsxy808]

Sagart wrote:

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Our diocese has implemented policies in each parish, which in turn have been the subject of an independent review and all the clergy and church members who have any access to minors or vulnerable adults have all been vetted by the police. While the horrific acts of some and criminal negligence of others will continue to cause suffering and sadness for some time to come, those of us who truly believe in the Church's mission will endeavour to eradicate this evil, provide help for those who have suffered and create a future where this can never happen again.

Policies are ink on a page and words in the wind unless the culture that created the problem is changed. And as I said earlier in the thread, I believe that the root cause of these crimes is something the Catholic Church can never change unless it rewrites itself from the ground up.

It is the church's insistence on casting human sexuality in a negative light and forcing people to be celibate that causes this. The only people who can really be celibate in this life are asexuals, because otherwise those perfectly normal urges WILL come out.

I believe that the vast majority of priests who have abused children would never have done so, and the vast majority of bishops who have been caught tapping their toes in public bathrooms would never have got themselves into that situation, if only they had lived in the real world in the first place.

If they're not "natural born" paedophiles, why would they abuse children? Because their sexual urges cannot be suppressed any longer, so they need to let them out, and children are the least likely to even understand what's happening and thereby resist, and also the least likely to tell on them. Let the priests be normal human beings in the first place, and 80% of this problem will disappear.

But given that that is such a central tenet of Catholic teachings (as unrealistic as it is), I don't think any amount of "policies" will ever stop this from happening.

.