RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,131
Posts: 5,401,523
Members: 24,746
Currently online: 611
Newest member: retrodynamic

TrekToday headlines

September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Lee Passes
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Retro Watches
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 24 2013, 08:16 PM   #106
bullethead
Fleet Captain
 
bullethead's Avatar
 
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Lance wrote: View Post
The trouble with people trying to compare Voyager with DS9 is that they're fundamentally different types of show. You can't really compare them. DS9 was sold directly into syndication (just like TNG) whereas Voyager was a network show. Voyager was hamstrung by too many network directives about what it can and can't be, where DS9 had more freedom to just say "fuck it, let's just blow up some shit!" (that's an actual Ron Moore quote btw). Truth is there were a whole shitload more Men In Suits™ issuing disapproving memos to the Voyager producers every day than there were to the DS9 guys on the other side of the Paramount lot. Rick Berman would turn up at his office every day and open his inbox and just have to deal with dozens of people saying "our audience research suggests Voyager would be more popular if the cast wore funny hats -- can we have an episode where Janeway finds a planet of hats?", and all his dreams about being in charge of something edgy would just melt. The setup was there in the series bible for a really terrific series, and yes, the character dynamic was excellent on paper. But Voyager was fighting a losing battle from the start. Virtually from the pilot episode, those memos started coming in: "Great television shows always have a reset button! Can't you guys have a reset button on your ship?".

Ironically, what would have really helped Voyager would have been to have a format more like what we got in years three and four of Enterprise: a series of three-to-four part storylines (mini-arcs) that would have given the characters and situations some extra room to breathe, instead of having to have everything wrapped up in 60 mins including commercials. I say 'ironically' because Enterprise was a network show too, but the pervailing feeling about what was popular in tv shows had changed alot since Voyager was on, and suddenly the very same ominous Men In Suits™ who had asked for Planet Of The Funny Hats stories were all lining up at Berman's office door to say how great it would be to have ongoing story arcs and character conflict. Hence the temporal cold war.
Actually, Braga has publicly stated that the reason behind the Temporal Cols War was UPN wanted something set further in the future than DS9 was, while the creative staff wanted a prequel, so the writers shoved in the TCW into the show to satisfy the execs. I think the shift to arcs happened because the show was tanking in the ratings and the suits were desperate to get ratings, so they let the writers out of the box a little.
__________________
A business man and engineer discuss how to launch a communications satellite in the 1960s:
Biz Dev Guy: Your communications satellite has to be the size, shape, and weight of a hydrogen bomb.
bullethead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24 2013, 11:17 PM   #107
Lance
Fleet Captain
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

bullethead wrote: View Post
Braga has publicly stated that the reason behind the Temporal Cols War was UPN wanted something set further in the future than DS9 was, while the creative staff wanted a prequel, so the writers shoved in the TCW into the show to satisfy the execs. I think the shift to arcs happened because the show was tanking in the ratings and the suits were desperate to get ratings, so they let the writers out of the box a little.
Actually, if that's true, then I think the execs made the right call. It should have been another far-flung future series. The prequel idea was a complete hash. The TCW doesn't fit in with Enterprise as a series at all, but as it's own show it would have had room to breathe a bit.

Studio Execs 1, Brannon Braga zilch.
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24 2013, 11:50 PM   #108
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Lance wrote: View Post
The trouble with people trying to compare Voyager with DS9 is that they're fundamentally different types of show. You can't really compare them. DS9 was sold directly into syndication (just like TNG) whereas Voyager was a network show. Voyager was hamstrung by too many network directives about what it can and can't be, where DS9 had more freedom to just say "fuck it, let's just blow up some shit!" (that's an actual Ron Moore quote btw). Truth is there were a whole shitload more Men In Suits™ issuing disapproving memos to the Voyager producers every day than there were to the DS9 guys on the other side of the Paramount lot. Rick Berman would turn up at his office every day and open his inbox and just have to deal with dozens of people saying "our audience research suggests Voyager would be more popular if the cast wore funny hats -- can we have an episode where Janeway finds a planet of hats?", and all his dreams about being in charge of something edgy would just melt. The setup was there in the series bible for a really terrific series, and yes, the character dynamic was excellent on paper. But Voyager was fighting a losing battle from the start. Virtually from the pilot episode, those memos started coming in: "Great television shows always have a reset button! Can't you guys have a reset button on your ship?".

Ironically, what would have really helped Voyager would have been to have a format more like what we got in years three and four of Enterprise: a series of three-to-four part storylines (mini-arcs) that would have given the characters and situations some extra room to breathe, instead of having to have everything wrapped up in 60 mins including commercials. I say 'ironically' because Enterprise was a network show too, but the pervailing feeling about what was popular in tv shows had changed alot since Voyager was on, and suddenly the very same ominous Men In Suits™ who had asked for Planet Of The Funny Hats stories were all lining up at Berman's office door to say how great it would be to have ongoing story arcs and character conflict. Hence the temporal cold war.
100% on point!
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25 2013, 01:53 AM   #109
Anwar
Vice Admiral
 
Anwar's Avatar
 
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Not employing Kate Mulgrew or Tim Russ would have helped too...
You spelled "Robert Beltran" and "Garrett Wang" wrong.
Anwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2013, 08:11 PM   #110
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Anwar wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Not employing Kate Mulgrew or Tim Russ would have helped too...
You spelled "Robert Beltran" and "Garrett Wang" wrong.
__________________
Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...
Relayer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2013, 11:14 PM   #111
feek61
Captain
 
feek61's Avatar
 
Location: The Sunshine State
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

I noticed that most of the episodes centered on the secondary characters. There were a lot of story's about Nelix, Kes, Paris, Kim, etc., but not that many on Janeway, Chakoty (sp?). Thank God the doctor was interesting!
feek61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1 2013, 10:58 AM   #112
balticballet
Ensign
 
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Neelix is the most annoying to me!
balticballet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2013, 05:09 PM   #113
Sadara
Lieutenant Commander
 
Sadara's Avatar
 
Location: New Mexico
View Sadara's Twitter Profile Send a message via Yahoo to Sadara
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

teacake wrote: View Post
He's not particularly original, though he is refreshing as a Vulcan who is not tormented with angst from being either half human or deeply flawed. He's an older mainstream Vulcan with hobbies (orchid growing), a family back in the Alpha quadrant he misses, a long term friendship in Janeway and some comfort zone challenges in the form of Neelix. He's one of the least dysfunctional Vulcans we see in Trek and a huge asset to the crew.

What did you see that was "bad"?
Sorry, I'm late coming into this thread, but I would like to agree that Tuvok is a normal Vulcan and refreshingly so. We were chatting in the DS9 forum about Captain Solok and TNG and DS9 saw some seriously off their rocker Vulcans. It's nice to see Tuvok just be a normal Vulcan as opposed to a murderous, rascist, Bendii Syndrome affected Vulcan.
Sadara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2013, 05:23 PM   #114
Shazam!
Rear Admiral
 
Shazam!'s Avatar
 
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

I'd have killed them all off after a season and then have some lower decks characters promoted to bridge officers.

It would have been cool to see a deeply inexperience bunch of people charged with returning Voyager.
Shazam! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2013, 05:39 PM   #115
Sadara
Lieutenant Commander
 
Sadara's Avatar
 
Location: New Mexico
View Sadara's Twitter Profile Send a message via Yahoo to Sadara
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Shazam! wrote: View Post
I'd have killed them all off after a season and then have some lower decks characters promoted to bridge officers.

It would have been cool to see a deeply inexperience bunch of people charged with returning Voyager.
Captain Vorik would be awesome.
Sadara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2013, 05:47 PM   #116
hux
Lieutenant Commander
 
hux's Avatar
 
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Shazam! wrote: View Post
It would have been cool to see a deeply inexperience bunch of people charged with returning Voyager.
But isn't that exactly what we did see
__________________
Kryton - Is this the human quality you call....friendship

Lister - Don't give me any of that Star Trek crap, its too early in the morning
hux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2013, 05:58 PM   #117
Relayer1
Commodore
 
Relayer1's Avatar
 
Location: The Black Country, England
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

hux wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote: View Post
It would have been cool to see a deeply inexperience bunch of people charged with returning Voyager.
But isn't that exactly what we did see
It seemed more like deeply inexperienced people charged with WRITING Voyager...
__________________
Soon oh soon the light, Pass within and soothe this endless night, And wait here for you, Our reason to be here...
Relayer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2013, 06:04 PM   #118
Shazam!
Rear Admiral
 
Shazam!'s Avatar
 
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

hux wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote: View Post
It would have been cool to see a deeply inexperience bunch of people charged with returning Voyager.
But isn't that exactly what we did see
No, everyone seemed to manage just fine.
Shazam! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2013, 06:13 PM   #119
Anwar
Vice Admiral
 
Anwar's Avatar
 
Location: Regina, SK, Canada
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

Why wouldn't they? Their situation wasn't unique, it happened to Kirk and Picard too.
Anwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2013, 12:47 AM   #120
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

And Professor Robinson & Dr. Smith too.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:41 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.