So many horrible characters aboard the Voyager

[Guy Gardener]

"Giving shit" is also a bad thing.

[exodus]

teacake wrote:

---

Enough! Enough with all this awful VOY bashing!!

So many mean posts, and here it is almost Valentines day!!

I wouldn't worry much about it.
I think what's worse than fictional characters is the fact the OP doesn't know the difference between Native American culture and Mexican. Nothing more annoying than racism.

[Guy Gardener]

Ignorance of race isn't racism.

It's ignorance.

Persistent ignorance on the other hand is laziness.

Too lazy not to seem racist?

More common than you would think.

Spanish Colonists were politically encouraged to interbred with native South American Indians for hundreds of years, until we have today' moderns Mexicans who uniformly, with some rare exceptions, have (at least) a dual ancestry of Spain and Native America to their credit commonly referred to as IndioMexican... Which is how Rob Beltran identifies himself, and has suggested unofficially that that's the same bloodlines which Lieutenant Commander Chakotay possesses.

"The Rubber Tree People"

Rubber Trees and Rubber plants are different. (Some dumb bastard tried to school me on Rubber Trees by talking about Rubber Plants last time this came up.). They are not the same. DIFFERENT!

Rubber Trees were singularly restricted to the Amazon Rain Forest until 1839.

So although Rob says that Chakotay is IndioMexican like he is, the Amazon Rain forest, where the Rubber Tree People used to hang (if they were real.), does not include Mexico in it's territories, which as you are probably aware are Brazil, Peru, Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Guyana, Suriname, and French Guiana, so either the opinionated actor is "wrong" (not that there's anything wrong with that.) or there's more information to this story we do not have.

The history of Chakotay's distant relations should have more in common with the Aztecs, Mayans, or the Toltecs than anything we've seen in a John Wayne movie.

[DavidLeeRoth]

I liked all of the characters on Voyager. I don't see what the fuss is about. They were mostly interesting, likable people. Yeah, Harry Kim was bland and underdeveloped, but he was a good fit with the rest of the cast and had his place on the show. He was not Travis Mayweather, who in addition to being bland and underdeveloped, was totally useless to both the rest of the cast and the series overall.

[exodus]

Guy Gardener wrote:

---

Ignorance of race isn't racism.

It's ignorance.

Persistent ignorance on the other hand is laziness.

Too lazy not to seem racist?

More common than you would think.

Spanish Colonists were politically encouraged to interbred with native South American Indians for hundreds of years, until we have today' moderns Mexicans who uniformly, with some rare exceptions, have (at least) a dual ancestry of Spain and Native America to their credit commonly referred to as IndioMexican... Which is how Rob Beltran identifies himself, and has suggested unofficially that that's the same bloodlines which Lieutenant Commander Chakotay possesses.

"The Rubber Tree People"

Rubber Trees and Rubber plants are different. (Some dumb bastard tried to school me on Rubber Trees by talking about Rubber Plants last time this came up.). They are not the same. DIFFERENT!

Rubber Trees were singularly restricted to the Amazon Rain Forest until 1839.

So although Rob says that Chakotay is IndioMexican like he is, the Amazon Rain forest, where the Rubber Tree People used to hang (if they were real.), does not include Mexico in it's territories, which as you are probably aware are Brazil, Peru, Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Guyana, Suriname, and French Guiana, so either the opinionated actor is "wrong" (not that there's anything wrong with that.) or there's more information to this story we do not have.

The history of Chakotay's distant relations should have more in common with the Aztecs, Mayans, or the Toltecs than anything we've seen in a John Wayne movie.

Thanks but you really don't need to analyze everything said.

[teacake]

Woops there goes another rubber tree plant..

Even when I was a kid I couldn't figure out why we were singing that dumb song.

[Hespen]

I'd like to give an update.

Neelix
After seeing him desperately wanting to hook up with that Klingon woman (season 7) I ended up liking him. It only took 7 seasons for me to like him. Then during homestead he was pretty bad ass, so he grew on me. Like I said it only took seven seasons to finally like Neelix. Hate him for six seasons, kind of like him in season 7.

Commander Chipotle
What an idiot. This has got to be the worst character in sci-fi history.

Commander Chipotle & Seven Romance
I'm not a writer, I have no talent when it comes to writing a story. I NEVER say this, but even I could write a better romance story than this. It just made no sense, at all? WTF? LOL.

Paris
Yawn

Harry Kim
Double Yawn

Torres
She never stopped bitching, why would anyone write a female character that just bitches constantly?

End Game Season 7 Finale
Quite possibly one of the worst finales to a show I've ever seen.

Summary

Voyager killed star trek. It will take years for star trek to recover from this mess.

They should of focused on Janeway, Tuvok, Doctor, Seven, Kes, ECheb. They should of showed Neelix desperately wanting to hook up with alien females (like he did with that klingon woman lol)

Deep Space Nine was vastly superior to Voyager.

I do not recommend watching Voyager, I strongly recommend no one watch it. Save yourself the trouble, the show is pretty bad. I've seen all seven seasons and it's just bad. Like I said, Voyager killed Star Trek. It will take years to recover from this mess.

[teacake]

Hespen wrote:

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I do not recommend watching Voyager, I strongly recommend no one watch it. Save yourself the trouble, the show is pretty bad. I've seen all seven seasons and it's just bad. Like I said, Voyager killed Star Trek. It will take years to recover from this mess.

So uhh.. how'd you like Enterprise?

[Guy Gardener]

Most of us wasted 7 years on this show, not 3 weeks.

We expect a proportionate return on our investment.

[Hespen]

Guy Gardener wrote:

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Most of us wasted 7 years on this show, not 3 weeks.

We expect a proportionate return on our investment.

DAMN, I never thought about it that way.

[teacake]

The fabulousness of this forum is your proportionate return!

Be the proportionate return you want to see in this world.

[Hespen]

teacake wrote:

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So uhh.. how'd you like Enterprise?

I'm currently researching the show somewhat. My biggest concern is if Enterprise has a proper ending in season 4. I really like how DS9 ended and was hoping enterprise would have something just as epic.

[Guy Gardener]

Berman and Braga started rubber stamping their underlings work. One was bored the other was accused of sexually harassing an actress. The Final season was fantastic. Several 3 and four part stories which in of them selves connected and mostly back referenced to earlier episodes of Enterprise as well as events from the 1960s series to bridge then to now. It was geat. They had a final trilogy of episodes that tied everything together into a neat little bow. Then Berman and Braga woke up, waded back in and made another episode that shat on the final season, and what should have been the final episodes that it's quite clear they have never watched because the script they claim was final episode material was actually a story which was rejected in season 2 and had been filed away for later.

[teacake]

Hespen wrote:

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I'm currently researching the show somewhat. My biggest concern is if Enterprise has a proper ending in season 4. I really like how DS9 ended and was hoping enterprise would have something just as epic.

What does that matter? Lots of great tv shows had no proper finale, heck they didn't even do tv show finale's in TOS's day afaict. And lots of great tv shows had horrible finales. There's a lot of pressure on a finale, if it doesn't work out it doesn't make what preceded it any less.

[Guy Gardener]

TOS if they felt like it, could have made a popper ending during either of the Star Trek animated series finales... But they let it ride instead of cashing out.

Doctor Richard Kimble in the last episode of the Fugitive did lock down the one armed man.

Then weren't children.

TV Producers back then could finish a story if they wanted to.

As far as last lines go...

"If I were human, I believe my response would be 'Go to Hell!'" .... even if Shatner ripped off Peter Pan and had another movie after that, was, in my cold dark heart, a suitable conclusion to classic Star Trek.