I think Keiko gets an undeservedly bad press!

[Dal Rassak]

O.k. so she comes across as unsympathetic sometimes, but it is unfair to the character and indicative of a lack of observation to make her out to be some kind of harpy.

She's essentially sacrificed most of her personal ambitions and fulfilment to her husband's career, and she lives in a place she can't stand that offers her few compensations.
If I did that for someone I love, even if it was my choice, I'd still end up feeling resentful if that generosity was taken so much for granted.

Basically Miles is where he wants to be doing what he wants to do. She's every bit as passionate about botany, but all she gets is the occasional field trip to some planet and her husband talking down to her about her job when she gets home.
Or else he's childish enough to feel slighted when, exhausted from an uncomfortable journey and with a sick child in tow, she hasn't immediately got romance on her mind. And speaking of romance, there's a point where he wants to set up a workshop in a corner of their bedroom, for goodness' sake!! The one place she's meant to have him all to herself and he wants to take his work even there and then has the nerve to complain to his best mate about how unreasonable she's being???!!

Plus, I don't see them having a hired help, so it's presumably Keiko who keeps the apartment spotless and looks after the kids all hours while he's busy with his job. When he's not doing that he's away on dangerous assignments where all she can do is sit there helpless fretting about whether he's going to come back in one piece, while most of his spare time is taken up with his best friend (and she still has the graciousness to encourage him to see that friend when she sees how he misses the company).

So, yeah, she gets a bit narky at times - that's because she's a real person and real people do that. If she's occasionally unreasonable I reckon she's earned the right to be!

It really annoys me that even in this day and age, apparently any female character who isn't always all sweetness and light and dares to get p****d off occasionally is still classed as a bitch.

[wissaboo]

all good points.

[Loskene]

Dal Rassak wrote:

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It really annoys me that even in this day and age, apparently any female character who isn't always all sweetness and light and dares to get p****d off occasionally is still classed as a bitch.

Even Major Kira gets this treatment in the first season when she believed the government sold out Bajor's independence. A justifiable opinion since she spent about two and a half decades trying to uproot the last off-worlders slogging through swamps starving and probably didn't even know all that much about the Federation or how much of it was propaganda and how much wasn't. The Cardassian's also were nice in the beginning.

I like Keiko' character overall even those few times when she is unreasonable. I just wish they gave us a little more of her in happier times. I really liked her in Time's Orphan and the Assignment.

[DalekJim]

Keiko is an ungrateful bitch but that's why she's an interesting character. Vedek Bareil is my least fave DS9 character because of how much of a bland douche he was. Politeness does not great character make.

[jmiller]

Yeah, I think my dislike to her wasn't in being snarky most of the time. In fact, I can understand why she would be. The problem was poor O'Brien getting run over by her constantly. I see the good points made above, but it would have been nice to see her appreciate the efforts O'Brien made to make things work.

[Dover]

Loskene wrote:

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Even Major Kira gets this treatment in the first season when she believed the government sold out Bajor's independence. A justifiable opinion since she spent about two and a half decades trying to uproot the last off-worlders slogging through swamps starving and probably didn't even know all that much about the Federation or how much of it was propaganda and how much wasn't. The Cardassian's also were nice in the beginning.

I like Keiko' character overall even those few times when she is unreasonable. I just wish they gave us a little more of her in happier times. I really liked her in Time's Orphan and the Assignment.

If anything, I think having a character like Kira around makes Keiko seem even more whiny. Kira's personality is actually pretty well-adjusted, considering her life. Keiko picks plants for a living, and her biggest complaint is that her husband's job is inconvenient. I love DS9 because the characters have flaws and are unlikable at times, so I don't necessarily think she should be any different, but I think that's why some people call her a bitch while accepting Kira's bitchiness.

[Loskene]

Dover wrote:

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Keiko picks plants for a living, and her biggest complaint is that her husband's job is inconvenient.

Yes her biggest complaint is that she had to uproot her life as a famed botnist serving aboard the Federation Flagship to move to a world with an unstable government bordering Cardassia with her 6 year old daughter where the natives blew up her school and tried to take over the station.

I think she is downright supportive considering all the heart ache she has had to go through. I know a lot of people who would have left O'Brian who has six different kinds of PTSD from a half dozen wars and a 20 something virtual imprisonment, works long hours when he is not away most of the time on missions or busy being captured by the enemy.

I remember only a few arguments that were settled quite quickly. Bitch? Hardly, she seems like charm to be around. Not many people find that kind of love in there life time, Miles is a great guy and he is a smart guy because he held on to her with both hands.

[Ln X]

Dal Rassak wrote:

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So, yeah, she gets a bit narky at times - that's because she's a real person and real people do that. If she's occasionally unreasonable I reckon she's earned the right to be!

It really annoys me that even in this day and age, apparently any female character who isn't always all sweetness and light and dares to get p****d off occasionally is still classed as a bitch.

Keiko and O'Brien equates to Star Trek's most realistic couple, nuff said...

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't understand any of the criticisms of Keiko. She seems to me like a normal person trying to balance her family life with her career life in a situation where it's exceedingly difficult.

There's only one episode where I don't like Keiko. I don't remember the name but the episode where their marriage comes most in jeopardy, it ends with her locking herself in her room for a while then coming out wearing the dress Miles likes. In every other episode she just comes off as a supportive wife who's willing to sacrifice her career for her family but would prefer not having to.

Have you guys seen the movie Blue Valentine? I bet the debate about that movie will fall in the same way this debate does. I've even heard the same line used to take Ryan Gosling's character's side as I've heard to slam Keiko: "He was trying to make the marriage work". Yeah, he was trying to make the marriage work by forced romantic gestures. And his wife was trying to live her own life in a way that contradicted his romantic desires. O'Brien is a nicer person than Ryan Gosling's character in Blue Valentine but Keiko's situation is similar to his wife: She's trying to live her own life in a way that contradicts male romatic desires, so she gets called a bitch for the same reasons.

Only, O'Brien is a nicer guy.

[DigificWriter]

I've always liked Keiko personally. She's a very realistic character in terms of her marriage to, love for, and support of Miles, although I do think that they made their marriage a bit too peaceful in some respects and realistically ought to have shown the two of them disagreeing more often than they did. I'm not talking about having them constantly fighting, mind you, but I can only recall a handful of instances where they were shown to have disagreements.