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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old April 16 2013, 02:25 AM   #91
ZapBrannigan
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

Speaking of the 3-footer, an amateur (but master) modeler from somewhere recently posted pics of his 22-inch long replica. He built it from scratch.

He carefully shot these pics to compare with the original model as seen in "Methuselah."

Apart from being a little smaller, it's a terrific match:



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Old April 16 2013, 09:29 PM   #92
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

No gridlines.
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Old April 17 2013, 09:20 AM   #93
Robert Comsol
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

I came across a previously unpublished (i.e. ST Posterbook "Smithsonian Report"), new close-up photo from Doug Drexler on Drex Files that he had taken in early 1977, there were no grid lines whatsoever on the engineering hull.

Unfortunately, Doug Drexler has been forced to shut down his Drex Files. I wanted to link to the picture, but that is very, very unfortunately no longer possible.

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Old April 17 2013, 11:28 AM   #94
ZapBrannigan
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I came across a previously unpublished (i.e. ST Posterbook "Smithsonian Report"), new close-up photo from Doug Drexler on Drex Files that he had taken in early 1977, there were no grid lines whatsoever on the engineering hull.

Unfortunately, Doug Drexler has been forced to shut down his Drex Files. I wanted to link to the picture, but that is very, very unfortunately no longer possible.

Bob

That's right. There are faint pencil lines on top of the saucer that don't show up even in most decent photos, but they are there:





But I've never seen grid on the secondary hull in any photo:










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Old April 17 2013, 05:41 PM   #95
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

Keep in mind that most of the 11 foot miniature was repainted by the the Smithsonian before it was ever displayed and before those photos were taken. As far as we know; no documentation of the original condition (and paint job) has made it out into the public domain other than the uncrating photos. The top of the saucer is the ONLY part that has never been repainted since the filming of the show.

In the above photos it shows no pencil lines on the bottom of the saucer but we know that they were there on the original before the initial restoration by the Smithsonian prior to it ever going on display. I don't believe the secondary hull ever had any lines on it but it could in fact have had some very faint pencil lines; there is just no way of knowing.
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Old April 17 2013, 09:11 PM   #96
Robert Comsol
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

feek61 wrote: View Post
Keep in mind that most of the 11 foot miniature was repainted by the the Smithsonian before it was ever displayed and before those photos were taken.
All the links and information in this thread have shown this is entirely conjectural and most likely a misinterpretation: In the early 1980's the Enterprise at the Smithsonian underwent clean-up and/or repaint to some unknown extent (i.e. after it had been hanging there in its original condition since 1976)

I took pictures in 1980 and the underside of the forward nacelle caps still had the darker shape (repainted or washed off in the above bluish shot) and the lower starboard porthole was still there (it disappeared after the early 1980's "work").

feek61 wrote: View Post
As far as we know; no documentation of the original condition (and paint job) has made it out into the public domain other than the uncrating photos. The top of the saucer is the ONLY part that has never been repainted since the filming of the show. In the above photos it shows no pencil lines on the bottom of the saucer but we know that they were there on the original before the initial restoration by the Smithsonian prior to it ever going on display.
There are these original black & white promotional stills with the harsh contrast / lighting that reveal details like the pencil lines on the underside of the saucer - which were still there in these (bluish) shots (www.cloudster.com) taken at the Smithsonian after the "work". But - again - you have to look very close to be able to see these.

Bob
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Old April 17 2013, 09:47 PM   #97
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

You may call the original painting a "myth" but I was there when it was originally unveiled at the Smithsonian in (I think) 1976 and studied it extensively. To me it appeared freshly painted and I believe one or more of the windows were painted over. Believe what you want but the color that was used to repaint it did not even match the original color; it was slightly more blue as compared to the more greenish original color.

If you compare photos from that time that have both the top of the saucer and the rest of the ship it seems pretty obvious that it was repainted (a different color no less). Compare the rim of the saucer with the top of it in the below photos; the top is a different color. Make your own judgement but I know what the evidence tells me. Also, when the miniature was uncrated; there were numerous sheets of replacement decals that could have been easily applied to replace the originals after the painting. Again, believe what you want but I see people so dogmatic in what they believe that they are not open to any other options.



The Smithsonian website says:
"Over time, heat, cold, humidity and other elements had taken a toll on the structure, the wiring and other internal components as well as the exterior paint scheme. Before it could be put on exhibit, extensive restoration was required. The first Smithsonian restoration took place shortly after the starship was received and was completed by July 29, 1974."

Extensive restoration, damage to the structure, wiring, internal components and exterior paint scheme sounds like it was more than touch-up on the exterior paint. Apparently it is (or was at the time) the policy of the Smithsonian to leave at least a portion of the original vehicle untouched and in this case it is the top of the saucer. Draw your own conclusions but I know what I saw then and the color difference in the photos seem to bear that out.
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Old April 18 2013, 09:13 AM   #98
CrazyMatt
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

Since the original was never intended to be displayed for this long, would it not make more sense to build a new display model that's true to the original Matt Jeffries/Richard Datin effort (updated to the series production version, of course) and could last longer than the original????
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Old April 18 2013, 01:29 PM   #99
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

Would it not make sense to put the Mona Lisa into safe storage, and put a copy on display in the Louvre?

Would it not make sense to build a faithful copy of the Spirit of St. Louis and hang that up in place of the original?

Who the heck wants to go to a museum to see a COPY of something?
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Old April 18 2013, 01:31 PM   #100
Robert Comsol
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

feek61 wrote: View Post
If you compare photos from that time that have both the top of the saucer and the rest of the ship it seems pretty obvious that it was repainted (a different color no less). Compare the rim of the saucer with the top of it in the below photos; the top is a different color. Make your own judgement but I know what the evidence tells me. Also, when the miniature was uncrated; there were numerous sheets of replacement decals that could have been easily applied to replace the originals after the painting. Again, believe what you want but I see people so dogmatic in what they believe that they are not open to any other options.
And this works both ways, doesn't it?

Again, in the Galileo restoration thread we had already discussed the issue. My Name Is Legion provided one of the original (1960's) promotional stills (post # 68) and I provided a link to the Cloudster close-up shot of the saucer's underside (post # 75) - an extreme close-up shot taken after the 1980's "restoration" (starboard porthole gone missing, forward nacelle cup underside "diffused") - that still revealed the original pencil lines on the saucer's starboard underside which match the original pencil lines of the promotional shot and the Enterprise's regular series appearance.

Now, unless somehow wants to seriously claim that during the 1980's restoration they painstakingly restored those tiny pencil lines (not visible to the Smithsonian visitors in the first place) on a fresh paint, I'd say this particular area was still the original color scheme (and apparently the color appears to match the rest of the ship, i.e. below the saucer's top side.)

The one option nobody seems to consider possible is that the top side of the saucer received a (new) paint job when the pilot version model was prepped for the regular series...

If I'm not mistaken the "7" of 1701 was suddenly different and additionally we had this "rust zone" paint scheme in the bow section of the saucer, that hadn't been there previously (and, of course, the tiny pencil lines).

I take this as a strong hint, that it had been the saucer's top side of the model that got a paint job while the rest of the model retained its original color.

I'm most definitely not trying to be dogmatic regarding the issue but I feel looking at all the hints, information and visual materials warrants to doubt general claims like "the top side was the only area not affected by a subsequent paint job".

Bob
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Old April 18 2013, 05:14 PM   #101
feek61
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

Oh, it certainly goes both ways and I'm not saying I'm right and you are wrong; simply a discussion.

I thought it was common knowledge that the entire miniature WAS painted between the pilot and series. Did it not go from white to gray/green? Also, the blue dorsal disappeared at some point between the pilot episodes and the series. I will have to pull out the Datin interview but I swear I remember him saying that it was repainted before the series started (but then again I may be wrong, lol).
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Old April 19 2013, 03:24 PM   #102
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Speaking of the 3-footer, an amateur (but master) modeler from somewhere recently posted pics of his 22-inch long replica. He built it from scratch.

He carefully shot these pics to compare with the original model as seen in "Methuselah."

Apart from being a little smaller, it's a terrific match:



Nice, but I would love to see someone make the same comparions using the Round 2 three foot model, since it is alleged to be the most screen accurate mold ever produced.
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Old April 19 2013, 04:22 PM   #103
MarsWeeps
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
Since the original was never intended to be displayed for this long, would it not make more sense to build a new display model that's true to the original Matt Jeffries/Richard Datin effort (updated to the series production version, of course) and could last longer than the original????
No, it would make absolutely no sense at all! This is the ORIGINAL ship and that's the whole point of people wanting to see it!
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Old April 20 2013, 01:29 AM   #104
Maurice
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Speaking of the 3-footer, an amateur (but master) modeler from somewhere recently posted pics of his 22-inch long replica. He built it from scratch.

He carefully shot these pics to compare with the original model as seen in "Methuselah."

Apart from being a little smaller, it's a terrific match:



Nice, but I would love to see someone make the same comparions using the Round 2 three foot model, since it is alleged to be the most screen accurate mold ever produced.
Comparing the Round 2 model to the original 3-footer would make no sense because the 3-footer differs in many ways from the 11-footer upon which the Round 2 kit is based.

And is that 22 inch model Shaw's?
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Old April 20 2013, 02:43 AM   #105
ZapBrannigan
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Re: The 11-foot TOS Enterprise model-

The thing about the 22-inch fan replica seen above is that it was built from scratch. No kit involved. That's a major achievement.

The modeler's name is David Shaw, and his intent was to match the shape of 33-inch studio model.
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