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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old February 5 2013, 08:17 PM   #106
BillJ
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Do you think bringing Worf to DS9 or creating Seven of Nine were creative decisions? They were decisions made to try and broaden the popularity of shows that were in decline ratings wise. Much like the Dominion War and the Xindi arc.
Worf, Seven, Xindi: yes
Dominion War: no

The Dominion was established very slowly and subtly as an adversary. It took like 3-4 seasons for the war to even start. It's not the same as the others which were immediate grabs.
I'm talking more about the ramping up of violence and big battle scenes like we saw beginning with The Way of the Warrior.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:18 PM   #107
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Insurrection was never going to be an easy sell to a mass audience of popcorn munchers regardless of who was captain. It's not really an action film, more of a traditional Star Trek morality play. It was never going to succeed at the box office over "FIRE EVERYTHING!" style frothiness as that's what audiences prefer. Less of that horrible thinking involved, just lots of 'splosions. Om nom.

I think if Star Trek 2009 rebooted the TNG crew (And thank God it didn't as the idea of a shaved Chris Pine playing young "Buckle up!" Picard is giving me the horrors!) it would've done as well, if not better because young people are way more familiar with that crew. I'm the only one my age I know that has even seen TOS.

Abrams' moronic spin in interviews that Star Trek "is all about" Kirk and Spock, or "only works" with Kirk and Spock is not only ignorant but disrespectful to those that kept the franchise going for so long.
Many TNG fans are hardly young whipper-snappers any more. If one was 15 when TNG first aired, that person's 40, now.

More's the pity for your Trek friends who haven't even seen TOS. Not that they have to like it, but no curiosity about it at all? Kind of like being a young Yankee fan and not having the least interest in Babe Ruth or even Mickey Mantle.

"Star Trek" may not be all about Kirk and Spock, but they are the roots of the franchise. And sometimes, in order to get something that's lost its spark to grow and thrive again, you've got to cut it back to its roots.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:19 PM   #108
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post
DS9 was so great because it didn't have to water itself down too much. Which it would have had to have done if it become a Hollywood blockbuster.
Once again, they had 178 episodes to tell a story, the 2009 film had two-hours. Surely you know there should be a difference in tempo and style between the two.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:20 PM   #109
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Star Trek actually is all about Kirk and Spock.

One of the annoying things about DS9 was just how tepid and TV-safe their treatment of war and all the issues involved really was, relative to any seriously intentioned piece of drama in the last, oh, forty years. Someone has claimed that it was the result of being created by guys who'd never served in a war zone but had seen a lot of movies. I don't know that this is true; given the ages of some of the folks involved I'd tend to think otherwise...but it would make sense, given the actual content.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:20 PM   #110
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post
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I say this as one who also thought DS9 was the "best" of all Trek series overall, and would love to see that cast on the big screen, but that just is not going to happen.
I'm actually glad that DS9 escaped. I don't want a JJ Abrams DS9 action film with Sisko telling Kira to "Buckle up!" as a 2-dimensional shouty caricature of Gul Dukat screams "Fire everything!".

DS9 was so great because it didn't have to water itself down too much. Which it would have had to have done if it become a Hollywood blockbuster.

As it stands, its legacy is untarnished. Best Trek ever.
Long as we always remember the implied IMO, I agree. Although I look forward to Into Darkness, and also think, overall, the reboot was handled really well in a delicate balancing act.

Come on, you don't want to see Cumberbatch respond, "Everything" to Kirk's query?
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Old February 5 2013, 08:21 PM   #111
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

daveyNY wrote: View Post

Unfortunately, the people who throw the money around to make these movies, apparently don't agree with that kind of thinking.

They do so to make more money, not Art.
I also think there is a high degree of confusion on how much money comes directly out of Paramount's pockets to make a Trek film [or any of their big films for that matter] versus how much is from investment money [large institutional investors and even small] where the people investing in the film are being guaranteed a certain rate of return.

As such - they follow the formula. The old Trek formula of 'morality plays,' likely wouldn't get much financing to be made in the first place.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:22 PM   #112
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Star Trek actually is all about Kirk and Spock.
To the general public? Absolutely.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:23 PM   #113
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

BillJ wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Do you think bringing Worf to DS9 or creating Seven of Nine were creative decisions? They were decisions made to try and broaden the popularity of shows that were in decline ratings wise. Much like the Dominion War and the Xindi arc.
Worf, Seven, Xindi: yes
Dominion War: no

The Dominion was established very slowly and subtly as an adversary. It took like 3-4 seasons for the war to even start. It's not the same as the others which were immediate grabs.
I'm talking more about the ramping up of violence and big battle scenes like we saw beginning with The Way of the Warrior.
DS9 kind of always did do big battles. Emissary starts off showing the Battle of Wolf 359, and then there was the big battle in The Die is Cast. Not to mention the Defiant was introduced as a warship.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:23 PM   #114
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

I thought the 'dominion' were a lousy contrived adversary, what is so facinating about an alliance that purely spammed the galaxy with deus ex machina tough jem hadar war ships piloted by big tough intellectually limited race of soldiers addicted to some drug that only a some other race of limp-weak but 'crafty' aliens that no one can remember can supply them.

It is 1990's game console characterisation at its best.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:25 PM   #115
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

The Wormhole wrote: View Post

DS9 kind of always did do big battles. Emissary starts off showing the Battle of Wolf 359, and then there was the big battle in The Die is Cast. Not to mention the Defiant was introduced as a warship.
They did have a couple. But they upped the mix after Worf's arrival and since they were struggling in the ratings, it's not hard to connect the two.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:27 PM   #116
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

Borgminister wrote: View Post
Come on, you don't want to see Cumberbatch respond, "Everything" to Kirk's query?
Cumberbatch is why I hold out hope. It's no secret that I fucking hate Nero. I think he's the worst villain in the history of Star Trek. His motives are non-existent ("A Vulcan risked his life to save my wife in time but he was slightly too late so I'm gonna blow up Earth!" WTF!), Eric Bana's performance was Razzie worthy ("FIYUHHH!") and why exactly was he chilling around for 25 years doing nothing?

There is no way but up from Nero as far as I'm concerned and Cumberbatch seems to be delivering as far as the performance goes.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:27 PM   #117
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

[QUOTE=BillJ;7643449]
Dalek
[I wrote:

Star Trek[/I] fans are going to watch Star Trek, but at the end of the day that's an incredibly small group.
Which BTW, as an aside makes the 2-day advance opening in IMAX only of the Trek film a brilliant strategy for Paramount. Trek fans will gladly pay the $8 - $10/person to be the first one's at the theater to see the flick.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:32 PM   #118
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post

One of the annoying things about DS9 was just how tepid and TV-safe their treatment of war and all the issues involved really was
Strongly disagree. The treatment of the Bajoran/Cardassian feud alone was better handled than almost all real life wars are in TV dramas. An episode like Duet knocks most television in to dust.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:34 PM   #119
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

DalekJim wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post

One of the annoying things about DS9 was just how tepid and TV-safe their treatment of war and all the issues involved really was
Strongly disagree. The treatment of the Bajoran/Cardassian feud alone was better handled than almost all real life wars are in TV dramas. An episode like Duet knocks most television in to dust.
M*A*S*H presented life on the front lines of a war-zone in a far more realistic and frank manner in the early-70's than DS9 did in the 90's.
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Old February 5 2013, 08:36 PM   #120
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Re: I hope for more traditional space battles

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M*A*S*H presented life on the front lines of a war-zone in a far more realistic and frank manner in the early-70's than DS9 did in the 90's.
Arguable. But both are 2 of the best television shows ever broadcast so it doesn't really matter to me much which did better. Personally I prefer DS9 but that's because fantasy/sci-fi tends to appeal to me over most genres.
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